Time to move to Switzerland

[MadImmortalMan]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25415501

Swiss to vote on incomes for all - working or not
By Imogen Foulkes BBC News, Bern


If you're Swiss, a regular share of this cash could soon be yours

Switzerland, one of the world's wealthiest countries, is engaged in an intense process of soul searching - about money.

This year alone there have been two nationwide referendums on executive pay, one of which approved strict limits on bonuses and banned golden handshakes.

Now two more votes are on the way, the first on the introduction of a minimum wage, and the second, and most controversial, on a guaranteed basic income for all legal residents, whether they work or not.

A universal basic income sounds very radical, but it is not a new idea - Thomas More proposed it in his work Utopia in the 16th Century.

On the left, universal basic income is thought to be fairer, while on the right it is seen as the policy that would make welfare payments obsolete.

For Enno Schmidt, a key supporter of universal basic income, Switzerland is the perfect place, and 2013 the perfect time, to launch a campaign to introduce it.

"Switzerland is the only place in Europe, and maybe in the world, where the people have the right to make something real, [through] direct democracy," he says.

That system of direct democracy means the Swiss could vote for free beer if they wanted to.

To hold a nationwide referendum, all citizens have to do is gather 100,000 signatures calling for a vote, and the ballot must be held - the result is binding.

'Happy land'

The anger among many Swiss voters at the news that some of their biggest banks, such as UBS, had continued paying top executives huge bonuses while also reporting huge losses, has led to a heated debate about salaries, and more widely, about fairness.

In that context, it was easy to gather the 100,000 signatures to hold the vote on universal income, and the government is expected to name a date for the referendum soon.

Swiss business leaders have reacted with dismay, one calling it a "happy land" proposal, the product of a younger generation that has never experienced a major economic recession or widespread unemployment.

Many have also suggested it could provide a major disincentive to working at all, something that could pose problems for Swiss companies already finding it hard to recruit skilled workers.

Mr Schmidt denies this, saying the proposed amount for Switzerland, 2,500 Swiss francs ($2,800; £1,750) a month is scarcely enough to survive on, and that anyway a society in which people work only because they have to have money is "no better than slavery".

Instead Mr Schmidt argues that universal income would allow people more freedom to decide what they really want to do.

"The thought is not that people will work less, the people are free to decide - more, or less," he says.

That argument has found some enthusiastic supporters among young Swiss voters.

They have adopted a rather clever campaign technique, borrowing eight million five-centime pieces and displaying them around the country as a symbol that Switzerland can afford to pay its eight million inhabitants a universal income.

'A risky move'

Che Wagner is one of the campaigners, he is 25, studying for a master's degree at Zurich university, and working for a pizza delivery company.

"I have a daughter," he says, "and so of course I am there for my daughter, I look after her."

"But it is also a struggle - I have to work, so we can live.

"I think with a basic income I would still have to work, but I could... maybe [also] say, 'OK let's spend a week with my daughter.'"

And, when Che and his colleagues dumped their eight million coins outside the Swiss parliament, the politicians inside did not dismiss the campaign out of hand.

"The idea makes sense in a certain way," says Luzi Stamm, member of parliament for the right-wing Swiss People's Party.

But Mr Stamm adds, it would be a risky move for Switzerland to take as long as it remains inside Europe's free movement of people agreement.

"It certainly does not work in a country like Switzerland. In a country which is wealthy, and has open borders it is suicide."

Meanwhile on the left, economist and former social democrat member of parliament Rudolf Strahm backs a minimum wage but is against a universal income, believing it would undermine the famous Swiss work ethic.

"There will be no incentive for young people to learn a job or study," he says.
64,000 franc question

So how much exactly would such a scheme cost?

No-one is offering precise figures, although there is surprisingly little debate about whether Switzerland could afford it - the consensus seems to be that, financially, the scheme would be doable.


We need to think more about our work-life balance, say campaigners

Income tax would not necessarily rise, but value added tax - on what people buy rather than what they earn - could rise to 20% or even 30%.

In the long run, supporters say, money might actually be saved because a basic universal income would replace means tested welfare payments.

But the main motivation behind the campaign is not economic but cultural, a bid to make people think more carefully about the nature of life and work.

Mr Wagner points out that the whole debate can make people uncomfortable, presenting them with choices that so far have been unimaginable.

"The idea goes to the personal question - what are you doing in your life, is it actually what you want do?"

Think about what kind of lever on the economy that would be if we did it. The Fed could jump start the economy way easier by raising it and squelch inflation by lowering it. Yes, we'd have to put it under Fed control--can you imagine how Congress would fuck that up? 

So, how many of you are actually doing "what you want to do with your life"? 

[crazy canuck]

In the long run, supporters say, money might actually be saved because a basic universal income would replace means tested welfare payments.

Is it more efficient to give a set amount to everyone and then claw back through taxation from anyone who earns above the amount.  I suppose so.

But arent they just going to create an underclass of non-residents they will need to bring in en mass to deliver the pizza and tax?

[The Brain]

I am shocked that young people are lazy.

[Admiral Yi]

Che Wagner is one of the campaigners, he is 25, studying for a master's degree at Zurich university, and working for a pizza delivery company.

  Straight out of central casting.

[Eddie Teach]

In the long run, supporters say, money might actually be saved because a basic universal income would replace means tested welfare payments.

Is it more efficient to give a set amount to everyone and then claw back through taxation from anyone who earns above the amount.  I suppose so.

But arent they just going to create an underclass of non-residents they will need to bring in en mass to deliver the pizza and tax?

I assume as they're getting rid of means testing that means the guy delivering pizza gets the stipend *and* the money he makes from his job. Not really much "claw back" from him as his taxes should be fairly low.

[MadImmortalMan]

That question reminds me of the way some of the Arab countries with lots of stipends for citizens and also lots of guest workers. I don't know how their payment distribution works, but they clearly did need to import labor. You think they might later decide to add a guest worker program that does not make the worker eligible. It kinda breaks the point behind it. Theirs might be way different from this though. I know very little about Kuwait/Qatar/UAE or whoever is doing it now.

[Valmy]

Che Wagner?  I wonder if his daughter is named Emma Goldman Wagner.

[Josquius]

The basic idea sounds good. Streamlines the benefits system a lot. But the amount seems a bit high, even for Switzerland

So, how many of you are actually doing "what you want to do with your life"?

I'm barely even doing a life let alone what I want to do with my life :p

[jimmy olsen]

Think about what kind of lever on the economy that would be if we did it. The Fed could jump start the economy way easier by raising it and squelch inflation by lowering it. Yes, we'd have to put it under Fed control--can you imagine how Congress would fuck that up? 

So, how many of you are actually doing "what you want to do with your life"? 

Negative income tax nearly passed in congress under Nixon. That seems to make more sense than giving money to both the poor and to active workers above the poverty line as well.

[Ideologue]

Milton.  FUCKING.  Freidman.

Why do you people hate capitalism?  And freedom?

[Admiral Yi]

You sure you're getting that right Ide?

What I've read about Friedman and transfers is that he considered transfers to be preferable to a minimum wage, as they don't introduce supply and demand distortions.  However, that's somewhat different than favoring transfers for their own sake.

[Ideologue]

Yeah, my imagination of that chapter really took my memories and ran with them until I read it again a few months ago.  I thought Friedman said a whooole lotta shit he didn't, the big one being that biology renders a market without a guaranteed income unfree, insofar as lacking biological requirements will kill you rendering any employment contract one of duress.  Turns out that's an original thought.

But the point is basically guaranteed income > welfare due to administrative fees and the weird way welfare is doled out, in terms of fake food stamp money or housing vouchers, when the government shouldn't care what a man does with his fair choices.

[Admiral Yi]

Including the freedom to starve your children and leave them on the street.

[Ideologue]

I'm pretty sure in the Republic of Freidmania you'd still have orphanages.

[dps]

Including the freedom to starve your children and leave them on the street.

Pretty sure that the abolition of welfare wouldn't also mean the abolition of Child Protective Services or its equivalent.