Criminal defendents and intelligence

[Razgovory]

Something that I noticed reading that ATF article.  There were sure a lot of defendants just above cucumber intelligence wise.  I got curious and looked up IQ, and while I noticed there is a lot of different scales 60 and below was abysmally low on almost all of them.  It was also quite rare.  I was wondering if anyone here had any insight on how these people were being tested and categorized.  It seemed strange that so many were below functional.

[Grinning_Colossus]

Hypothesis 1: The police only catch the really dumb ones.

Hypothesis 2: These criminals are apathetic test-takers at best, which is throwing their scores.

[CountDeMoney]

Hypothesis 1: The police only catch the really dumb ones.

True; all the smart ones never go to jail, look at Wall Street, nyuk nyuk.

[Barrister]

Very low IQ correlates pretty strongly with poor impulse control and inability to see the consequences of your actions, which are the things that lead people into committing most crimes.

[CountDeMoney]

I dunno, BB...greed seems to affect IQs across the board.

[The Brain]

Poors tend towards stupidity.

[Syt]

Very low IQ correlates pretty strongly with poor impulse control and inability to see the consequences of your actions, which are the things that lead people into committing most crimes.

Recent studies seem to indicate that when you're poor your decision making process often runs different than if you have money. That people who've been poor for a long time, despite efforts to change it tend to go for the little joys when they can, because whether the money runs out on Wednesday or Thursday is irrelevant at that point.

[Eddie Teach]

I dunno, BB...greed seems to affect IQs across the board.

Generally in a rational person, fear of prison > greed. So intelligent people need to do more mental gymnastics to convince themselves they can't get caught.

[CountDeMoney]

So intelligent people need to do more mental gymnastics to convince themselves they can't get caught.

Meh, intelligent people have done incredibly stupid things without much thought behind them, precisely because they think they can't get caught.  Not many mental gymnastics involved, except maybe tumbling.

[Razgovory]

Very low IQ correlates pretty strongly with poor impulse control and inability to see the consequences of your actions, which are the things that lead people into committing most crimes.

This is very low IQ though.  Like, "I can't dress myself" levels.  I'm wondering if these tests are being taken after the defendant has been charge and arranged by his attorney.  The defendant wouldn't have much of a reason to do well on this test because findings of diminished capacity may result in leniency. Or if the tests themselves are deeply flawed.

[Ideologue]

Very low IQ correlates pretty strongly with poor impulse control and inability to see the consequences of your actions, which are the things that lead people into committing most crimes.

Recent studies seem to indicate that when you're poor your decision making process often runs different than if you have money. That people who've been poor for a long time, despite efforts to change it tend to go for the little joys when they can, because whether the money runs out on Wednesday or Thursday is irrelevant at that point.

I read a neat article comparing it to living with suicidal feelings.  The utility of life is so low that "risking it all" or "blowing it all" means risking very little in fact and dumb decisions like "let's hold up this liquor store" are more rational when viewed in that context.

[dps]

I think you guys are missing Raz's point.  He isn't talking about people with IQs in the 80-85 range, those that, if you happened to just talk to them causally, you might not notice are retarded, but people with IQs of 60 or below--as he put it "I can't dress myself" levels.

[CountDeMoney]

Then that's good enough for Texas to execute.

[Barrister]

I think you guys are missing Raz's point.  He isn't talking about people with IQs in the 80-85 range, those that, if you happened to just talk to them causally, you might not notice are retarded, but people with IQs of 60 or below--as he put it "I can't dress myself" levels.

I don't think an IQ under 60 means "I can't dress myself".  After all my three year old can mostly dress himself.

I think you have to get to 20-30 before you're that heavily institutionalized.  I can remember dealing with a pretty seriously mentally disabled crime victim who was in the 50-60 range, but she could basically function independently in the community with just a little guidance from family.

[Josquius]

Hypothesis 2: These criminals are apathetic test-takers at best, which is throwing their scores.

This.
IQ only measures test takign ability.