Criminal defendents and intelligence

[DGuller]

Hypothesis 2: These criminals are apathetic test-takers at best, which is throwing their scores.

This.
IQ only measures test takign ability.

[Queequeg]

Psychopathy is generally associated with above-average intelligence but with poor impulse control.  I think there's likely some aspect of higher intelligence being associated with greater self-control, but I don't think that it's universally true that criminals do crimanaly things because they have poor mental faculties, but can be because, in the case of psychopaths, they process certain things pretty differently. 

[Capetan Mihali]

I think you guys are missing Raz's point.  He isn't talking about people with IQs in the 80-85 range, those that, if you happened to just talk to them causally, you might not notice are retarded, but people with IQs of 60 or below--as he put it "I can't dress myself" levels.

I don't think an IQ under 60 means "I can't dress myself".  After all my three year old can mostly dress himself.

I think you have to get to 20-30 before you're that heavily institutionalized.  I can remember dealing with a pretty seriously mentally disabled crime victim who was in the 50-60 range, but she could basically function independently in the community with just a little guidance from family.

I agree with Barrister.  I have had long conversations, on the phone and in person, with young clients in in the 55-65 range, and though it's clear you aren't dealing with the most sophisticated thinkers, they aren't immediately identifiable as severely low IQ (or even so much different from an ordinary teenager).

For me, the IQ scores usually come from IEP testing that their school has already done.

[Queequeg]

Weren't some of the more famous serial killers extremely intelligent?  Bundy was extremely clever, and reasonably well educated, and Kemper's IQ was in the 140s.

[Queequeg]

Dahmer's was in the 140 range too. 

[Ideologue]

One of the two clients I ever had was at the least very dumb and probably technically retarded, and it was obvious that he was within moments of meeting him.

The other one was functional, but he also didn't seem very bright.  He did, after all, go to law school.

[Queequeg]

Also, any kind of traumatic brain injury that would lower a person's IQ would also likely do damage to specific impulse control and judgement centers.  I seem to remember Pinker's The Blank Slate looking at the cases of several children who all had a very specific type of brain damage in early childhood that, while leaving their IQ scores relatively unhurt, made them basically incapable of living within societal norms. 

[CountDeMoney]

IQ issue?  Or just Ohio?

Neighbor arrested in 9-year-old's death

(Courtesy of Wayne County/Via AP) - Jerrod Metsker, 24, of Green Township, Ohio.




A neighbor was arrested Sunday in the killing of a 9-year-old Ohio girl whose body was found in a trash bin near her home after authorities and residents searched for the child.

Jerrod Metsker, 24, was arrested at his home on a murder charge about 12 hours after deputies found the body of Reann Murphy near her home at a mobile park in Smithville, about 30 miles southwest of Akron, Wayne County Sheriff Travis Hutchinson said at a news conference.

It was not clear whether Metsker had an attorney. His first court appearance is scheduled for Monday morning.

Reann was last seen Saturday night playing at the park. Hutchinson wouldn't say how the girl was killed or offer a motive. He described Metsker as a neighbor and friend of the girl's family.

[Ideologue]

I'm glad I was born with a lower jaw.

[Ed Anger]

IQ issue?  Or just Ohio?

Ohio

[Eddie Teach]

A state that was hit with the ugly stick. That's why Urban Meyer got moved there.