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Criminal defendents and intelligence

Started by Razgovory, December 13, 2013, 09:17:58 PM

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Razgovory

Something that I noticed reading that ATF article.  There were sure a lot of defendants just above cucumber intelligence wise.  I got curious and looked up IQ, and while I noticed there is a lot of different scales 60 and below was abysmally low on almost all of them.  It was also quite rare.  I was wondering if anyone here had any insight on how these people were being tested and categorized.  It seemed strange that so many were below functional.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Grinning_Colossus

Hypothesis 1: The police only catch the really dumb ones.

Hypothesis 2: These criminals are apathetic test-takers at best, which is throwing their scores.
Quis futuit ipsos fututores?

CountDeMoney

Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on December 13, 2013, 10:30:49 PM
Hypothesis 1: The police only catch the really dumb ones.

True; all the smart ones never go to jail, look at Wall Street, nyuk nyuk.

Barrister

Very low IQ correlates pretty strongly with poor impulse control and inability to see the consequences of your actions, which are the things that lead people into committing most crimes.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

CountDeMoney

I dunno, BB...greed seems to affect IQs across the board.

The Brain

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Syt

Quote from: Barrister on December 14, 2013, 09:47:07 AM
Very low IQ correlates pretty strongly with poor impulse control and inability to see the consequences of your actions, which are the things that lead people into committing most crimes.

Recent studies seem to indicate that when you're poor your decision making process often runs different than if you have money. That people who've been poor for a long time, despite efforts to change it tend to go for the little joys when they can, because whether the money runs out on Wednesday or Thursday is irrelevant at that point.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.
—Stephen Jay Gould

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Eddie Teach

Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 14, 2013, 09:48:21 AM
I dunno, BB...greed seems to affect IQs across the board.

Generally in a rational person, fear of prison > greed. So intelligent people need to do more mental gymnastics to convince themselves they can't get caught.
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

CountDeMoney

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on December 14, 2013, 11:25:24 AM
So intelligent people need to do more mental gymnastics to convince themselves they can't get caught.

Meh, intelligent people have done incredibly stupid things without much thought behind them, precisely because they think they can't get caught.  Not many mental gymnastics involved, except maybe tumbling.

Razgovory

Quote from: Barrister on December 14, 2013, 09:47:07 AM
Very low IQ correlates pretty strongly with poor impulse control and inability to see the consequences of your actions, which are the things that lead people into committing most crimes.

This is very low IQ though.  Like, "I can't dress myself" levels.  I'm wondering if these tests are being taken after the defendant has been charge and arranged by his attorney.  The defendant wouldn't have much of a reason to do well on this test because findings of diminished capacity may result in leniency. Or if the tests themselves are deeply flawed.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Ideologue

Quote from: Syt on December 14, 2013, 11:15:18 AM
Quote from: Barrister on December 14, 2013, 09:47:07 AM
Very low IQ correlates pretty strongly with poor impulse control and inability to see the consequences of your actions, which are the things that lead people into committing most crimes.

Recent studies seem to indicate that when you're poor your decision making process often runs different than if you have money. That people who've been poor for a long time, despite efforts to change it tend to go for the little joys when they can, because whether the money runs out on Wednesday or Thursday is irrelevant at that point.

I read a neat article comparing it to living with suicidal feelings.  The utility of life is so low that "risking it all" or "blowing it all" means risking very little in fact and dumb decisions like "let's hold up this liquor store" are more rational when viewed in that context.
Kinemalogue
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dps

I think you guys are missing Raz's point.  He isn't talking about people with IQs in the 80-85 range, those that, if you happened to just talk to them causally, you might not notice are retarded, but people with IQs of 60 or below--as he put it "I can't dress myself" levels.

CountDeMoney

Then that's good enough for Texas to execute.

Barrister

Quote from: dps on December 14, 2013, 11:11:06 PM
I think you guys are missing Raz's point.  He isn't talking about people with IQs in the 80-85 range, those that, if you happened to just talk to them causally, you might not notice are retarded, but people with IQs of 60 or below--as he put it "I can't dress myself" levels.

I don't think an IQ under 60 means "I can't dress myself".  After all my three year old can mostly dress himself.

I think you have to get to 20-30 before you're that heavily institutionalized.  I can remember dealing with a pretty seriously mentally disabled crime victim who was in the 50-60 range, but she could basically function independently in the community with just a little guidance from family.

Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Josquius

Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on December 13, 2013, 10:30:49 PM

Hypothesis 2: These criminals are apathetic test-takers at best, which is throwing their scores.

This.
IQ only measures test takign ability.
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