Ukraine's European Revolution?

[Queequeg]

Psellus, nobody else here is interested in Putin-apologetism.

Lieven is well respected and that article isn't from Pravda. 

[Tamas]

Psellus, nobody else here is interested in Putin-apologetism.

Lieven is well respected and that article isn't from Pravda.

"a fringe group afraid of their life made a dick move, and the West sucks because do not consider such moves as sacred and the new directives for international diplomacy" It is making a case for being lenient on an aggressive empire destabilising and eating a neighbour destabilising the entire world in the process. It is appeasement at its worst.

[Grinning_Colossus]

I'm not seeing the Putinism in that op ed. The eastern Russophones don't like the government in Kiev, but saying that they must therefore want to be ruled by Moscow is playing into the Russian narrative. Giving them another option would weaken their alliance with Moscow.

[Tamas]

I'm not seeing the Putinism in that op ed. The eastern Russophones don't like the government in Kiev, but saying that they must therefore want to be ruled by Moscow is playing into the Russian narrative. Giving them another option would weaken their alliance with Moscow.

I am not seeing "we want to stay Ukraine but we do not like this government" protests. ANYWHERE. What I see is masked guys in unmarked military uniforms joined by local thugs taking over local government buildings in different cities in coordinated assaults then shooting down helicopters with anti-aircraft weaponry.

That is NOT about inner politics dissent over a shaky and fucked up government (which they clearly have).

[Valmy]

I'm not seeing the Putinism in that op ed. The eastern Russophones don't like the government in Kiev, but saying that they must therefore want to be ruled by Moscow is playing into the Russian narrative. Giving them another option would weaken their alliance with Moscow.

Well according to that article we already agreed to that, in principle anyway, on April 17th.  I am not seeing this alternative vision is reducing tensions any.

[Grinning_Colossus]

I'm not seeing the Putinism in that op ed. The eastern Russophones don't like the government in Kiev, but saying that they must therefore want to be ruled by Moscow is playing into the Russian narrative. Giving them another option would weaken their alliance with Moscow.

I am not seeing "we want to stay Ukraine but we do not like this government" protests. ANYWHERE. What I see is masked guys in unmarked military uniforms joined by local thugs taking over local government buildings in different cities in coordinated assaults then shooting down helicopters with anti-aircraft weaponry.

That is NOT about inner politics dissent over a shaky and fucked up government (which they clearly have).

Sure, the Russians are sending in infiltrators who are claiming to speak for the population. The real Crimean referendum result suggests that the east Ukrainians aren't exactly sold on the idea of becoming part of Russia, but that the Russian forces are allowed to operate so freely also suggests that the population condones their actions to some degree. Offering the Donbas autonomy as an alternative to being ruled by a nationalist government or joining Russia would weaken the Russian position there.

Well according to that article we already agreed to that, in principle anyway, on April 17th.  I am not seeing this alternative vision is reducing tensions any.

Then we need to browbeat Kiev into also explicitly agreeing to it.

[Tamas]

Sure, the Russians are sending in infiltrators who are claiming to speak for the population. The real Crimean referendum result suggests that the east Ukrainians aren't exactly sold on the idea of becoming part of Russia, but that the Russian forces are allowed to operate so freely also suggests that the population condones their actions to some degree. Offering the Donbas autonomy as an alternative to being ruled by a nationalist government or joining Russia would weaken the Russian position there.

That offer has already been made, and in clear reply the building-occupations started.

Then the Ukrainian government proposed a referendum about the fate of the region together with the election. And things escalated again.

There is NOTHING domestic about this, apart from the fact that unarmed civilians are not feeling like standing up against Russian special forces and their hired armed thugs.

[Syt]

Psellus, nobody else here is interested in Putin-apologetism.

What I like about that article is that we are contemptible, immoral, irresponsible, and equivalent to six year olds overreaching in our attempt to turn Ukraine into a puppet state 100% aligned to the west and in our grasp of evil....yet at the same time have already agreed to the solution he says will save the day for weeks?

You may want to read North Korea's Human Rights report on the U.S. next, which calls the living situation of people in America "A Living Hell".

[Valmy]

You may want to read North Korea's Human Rights report on the U.S. next, which calls the living situation of people in America "A Living Hell".

Only true for Cubs fans.

[grumbler]

Then we need to browbeat Kiev into also explicitly agreeing to it.

It isn't Kiev that is occupying government buildings while wearing masks.  The people that need to be browbeaten are those guys.

[Duque de Bragança]

Leopolis is universal.

FYP

[Crazy_Ivan80]

The Netherlands are just a breakaway region of Germany.

The Netherlands is singular, not plural.

it's plural as it refers to the many small states that formed the country in the 16th century (and to the Southern and Northern Netherlands that formed the state after it was reformed in 1814/15). English doesn't have a singular form for the place.

[derspiess]

Wonder why we don't call Flanders "the Flanders".

[Queequeg]

I think keeping the article for places is actually an older English thing.  Germans do it IIRC.  It is, like a lot of vestigial features of a language, kept unevenly. 

[garbon]

The Netherlands are just a breakaway region of Germany.

The Netherlands is singular, not plural.

it's plural as it refers to the many small states that formed the country in the 16th century (and to the Southern and Northern Netherlands that formed the state after it was reformed in 1814/15). English doesn't have a singular form for the place.

Pretty sure it should be "The Netherlands is" and not "The Netherlands are" in English.