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Ukraine's European Revolution?

Started by Sheilbh, December 03, 2013, 07:39:37 AM

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Valmy

This just shows I am living in the past  :(
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Valmy

Quote from: grumbler on May 05, 2014, 10:24:33 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 05, 2014, 09:53:36 AM
Is this like the Ohio State University?

More like the America, the Scotland, the Russia, the Valmy, etc.

That is absurd.  I have never once been referred to with a bolded article.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

mongers

Quote from: Barrister on May 05, 2014, 10:31:46 AM
QuoteIn English, the definite article is used with geographical identifiers primarily in one of four situations: 1. if the name is plural ("the Philippines", "the Netherlands"); 2. if a common noun is included ("the United States", "the Central African Republic"); 3. if the region in question is a sub-region of another ("the Sudetenland", "the Saar");[36] 4. if the country is essentially synonymous with a marked geographical feature ("the Republic of The Gambia [River]", "the Ivory Coast"). Prior to its 1991 independence, the technical name of Ukraine as a constituent part of the Soviet Union was the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic, and thus by reasons likely stemming from 2 and 3 above was often referred to in English as the Ukraine. As none of the four conditions now hold (and conditions 1 and 4 never applied), the use of the definite article is now obsolete. Since the Declaration of Independence of Ukraine the English-speaking world has largely stopped using the article.[37][38][39][40] Since November 1991, several American journalists started to refer to Ukraine as Ukraine instead of the Ukraine.[39] The Associated Press dropped the article 'the' on 3 December 1991.[39] This approach has become established in journalism and diplomacy since (other examples are the style guides of The Guardian[41] and The Times[42]). In 1993 the Ukrainian government requested that the article be dropped.[43]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_Ukraine

:hmm:

These people are rather touchy, trying to convince the world how they should refer to things.  :moon:
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

garbon

Quote from: mongers on May 05, 2014, 10:36:41 AM
Quote from: Barrister on May 05, 2014, 10:31:46 AM
QuoteIn English, the definite article is used with geographical identifiers primarily in one of four situations: 1. if the name is plural ("the Philippines", "the Netherlands"); 2. if a common noun is included ("the United States", "the Central African Republic"); 3. if the region in question is a sub-region of another ("the Sudetenland", "the Saar");[36] 4. if the country is essentially synonymous with a marked geographical feature ("the Republic of The Gambia [River]", "the Ivory Coast"). Prior to its 1991 independence, the technical name of Ukraine as a constituent part of the Soviet Union was the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic, and thus by reasons likely stemming from 2 and 3 above was often referred to in English as the Ukraine. As none of the four conditions now hold (and conditions 1 and 4 never applied), the use of the definite article is now obsolete. Since the Declaration of Independence of Ukraine the English-speaking world has largely stopped using the article.[37][38][39][40] Since November 1991, several American journalists started to refer to Ukraine as Ukraine instead of the Ukraine.[39] The Associated Press dropped the article 'the' on 3 December 1991.[39] This approach has become established in journalism and diplomacy since (other examples are the style guides of The Guardian[41] and The Times[42]). In 1993 the Ukrainian government requested that the article be dropped.[43]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_Ukraine

:hmm:

These people are rather touchy, trying to convince the world how they should refer to things.  :moon:

teh horror!
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

derspiess

"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Barrister

Quote from: mongers on May 05, 2014, 10:36:41 AM
Quote from: Barrister on May 05, 2014, 10:31:46 AM
QuoteIn English, the definite article is used with geographical identifiers primarily in one of four situations: 1. if the name is plural ("the Philippines", "the Netherlands"); 2. if a common noun is included ("the United States", "the Central African Republic"); 3. if the region in question is a sub-region of another ("the Sudetenland", "the Saar");[36] 4. if the country is essentially synonymous with a marked geographical feature ("the Republic of The Gambia [River]", "the Ivory Coast"). Prior to its 1991 independence, the technical name of Ukraine as a constituent part of the Soviet Union was the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic, and thus by reasons likely stemming from 2 and 3 above was often referred to in English as the Ukraine. As none of the four conditions now hold (and conditions 1 and 4 never applied), the use of the definite article is now obsolete. Since the Declaration of Independence of Ukraine the English-speaking world has largely stopped using the article.[37][38][39][40] Since November 1991, several American journalists started to refer to Ukraine as Ukraine instead of the Ukraine.[39] The Associated Press dropped the article 'the' on 3 December 1991.[39] This approach has become established in journalism and diplomacy since (other examples are the style guides of The Guardian[41] and The Times[42]). In 1993 the Ukrainian government requested that the article be dropped.[43]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_Ukraine

:hmm:

These people are rather touchy, trying to convince the world how they should refer to things.  :moon:

Well it goes right back to what we're seeing now in Ukraine.  You have a large, powerful neighbor that fundamentally doesn't think that Ukraine is a "legitimate country" - it's just a break-away region of Mother Russia.  Using "the" can be seen as implying Ukraine is just a region of Russia.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Valmy

Damn I have been saying 'the Ukraine' my whole life.  I had no idea I was making such a bold political statement there.  I just thought it was like 'the Netherlands' or something.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

grumbler

Quote from: Valmy on May 05, 2014, 10:34:20 AM
That is absurd.  I have never once been referred to with a bolded article.

I have referred to you using the bolded article several times.  I caught myself and corrected the error before posting, though... unlike you, who didn't catch-and-correct your error using the article in refernce to Ukraine.

Now, as to why you think Mongers meant Ukraine when he referred to "this thing,"  I have no idea.  Insofar as I know, he uses "this thing" to refer to the UK, because that's where he is.  Had he meant Ukraine, he would have said "that thing."  References to "Scotland in the Ukraine" still baffle me, even given the misused definite article.  I presume it is some sort of euphemism, since the only other use of it I can find on the internet is the following sentence from a 2006 blog post:
QuoteThe six-man, gout-riddlit BOOBs, average age 42, defeated a much fitter workman-like DD team by the odd goal in eleevin through sheer guts n determination, n a well-marshalled back 5 led bi Tricky adopting a Cattenachio-type defensive system similar to that favoured by Walter Smith's Scotland in the Ukraine last night.
http://theboysofoldboness.blogspot.com/2006_10_01_archive.html
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Barrister

Quote from: Valmy on May 05, 2014, 10:48:43 AM
Damn I have been saying 'the Ukraine' my whole life.  I had no idea I was making such a bold political statement there.  I just thought it was like 'the Netherlands' or something.

:console:

But now you know better.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Eddie Teach

To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

garbon

Quote from: grumbler on May 05, 2014, 10:51:29 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 05, 2014, 10:34:20 AM
That is absurd.  I have never once been referred to with a bolded article.

I have referred to you using the bolded article several times.  I caught myself and corrected the error before posting, though... unlike you, who didn't catch-and-correct your error using the article in refernce to Ukraine.

Now, as to why you think Mongers meant Ukraine when he referred to "this thing,"  I have no idea.  Insofar as I know, he uses "this thing" to refer to the UK, because that's where he is.  Had he meant Ukraine, he would have said "that thing."  References to "Scotland in the Ukraine" still baffle me, even given the misused definite article.  I presume it is some sort of euphemism, since the only other use of it I can find on the internet is the following sentence from a 2006 blog post:
QuoteThe six-man, gout-riddlit BOOBs, average age 42, defeated a much fitter workman-like DD team by the odd goal in eleevin through sheer guts n determination, n a well-marshalled back 5 led bi Tricky adopting a Cattenachio-type defensive system similar to that favoured by Walter Smith's Scotland in the Ukraine last night.
http://theboysofoldboness.blogspot.com/2006_10_01_archive.html

Grumbler jokes. Rough!
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Solmyr

Quote from: Valmy on May 05, 2014, 10:48:43 AM
Damn I have been saying 'the Ukraine' my whole life.  I had no idea I was making such a bold political statement there.  I just thought it was like 'the Netherlands' or something.

The Netherlands are just a breakaway region of Germany. :P

Ed Anger

Quote from: DGuller on May 05, 2014, 08:23:40 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 05, 2014, 07:32:44 AM
Quote from: DGuller on May 05, 2014, 07:02:39 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on May 05, 2014, 02:28:51 AM
China got out of crazy. Russia can.
I don't see the similarities.  Chinese insanity was imposed from the top down.  Russian insanity is there at the grassroots, Putin is merely tapping into it.

You feeling a bit nutty DG? Since it is ingrained as you say.
:mad: I'm not Russian.

Stay Alive...Let the Man Drive

Razgovory

Quote from: Grey Fox on May 05, 2014, 08:40:57 AM
Quote from: DGuller on May 05, 2014, 08:23:40 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 05, 2014, 07:32:44 AM
Quote from: DGuller on May 05, 2014, 07:02:39 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on May 05, 2014, 02:28:51 AM
China got out of crazy. Russia can.
I don't see the similarities.  Chinese insanity was imposed from the top down.  Russian insanity is there at the grassroots, Putin is merely tapping into it.

You feeling a bit nutty DG? Since it is ingrained as you say.
:mad: I'm not Russian.

You are not a lot of things

Not Russian, not an accountant, not Dorsey4AR, not this, not that.

What are you?

A guy who lives near the Holland tunnel, and frankly drinks to much.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Eddie Teach

Quote from: Razgovory on May 05, 2014, 02:45:23 PM
A guy who lives near the Holland tunnel, and frankly drinks to much.

He doesn't drink that much. For a Russian, anyway.
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?