Ukraine's European Revolution?

[Queequeg]

"we don't eat meat/transfats/whatever"

It is way weirder than vegetarianism.  Coffee beans don't have central nervous systems. 

[Queequeg]

But Squeelus, you said "Orthodoxy has see itself as persecuted since 1204, not without reason."  That suggests Orthodoxy has been persecuted up to the present.  I don't see that at all.

Despite the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth's reputation for tolerance it wasn't treated all that nicely, in part because Orthodox believers were viewed as schills for Moscow.  Similarly Orthodox peoples (Serbs, Romanians, Bulgarians) are often at the stabby-end of either Catholic or Muslim aggression. 

[The Minsky Moment]

The fuck kind of Abrahamic faith has stone bulls as a part of its worship, numbnuts?"

Baal and El were worshipped throughout northern Israel at sites like Schechem and Bethel.  The bull iconography is associated withe those gods.  The story of the golden calfs worshipped under the reign of Jeroboam takes place at Bethel and acknowledges what may very well have been a common cult practice in the region.  The more famous Exodus story is an anachronistic reflection of that practice.

[Queequeg]

Baal and El were worshipped throughout northern Israel at sites like Schechem and Bethel.  The bull iconography is associated withe those gods.  The story of the golden calfs worshipped under the reign of Jeroboam takes place at Bethel and acknowledges what may very well have been a common cult practice in the region.  The more famous Exodus story is an anachronistic reflection of that practice.

I realize that but Mormonism purposefully adopts the religious imagery of the pre-Monotheistic Israelites.  Of Canaan.  I don't think any other Abrahamic faith does that.  Moses destroying the graven images and the golden calf is pretty much the starting point in Genesis of a faith that we can recognize. 

[Admiral Yi]

Despite the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth's reputation for tolerance it wasn't treated all that nicely, in part because Orthodox believers were viewed as schills for Moscow.  Similarly Orthodox peoples (Serbs, Romanians, Bulgarians) are often at the stabby-end of either Catholic or Muslim aggression.

Fine.   But name one religion that hasn't been treated poorly at some place and at some time.

[Queequeg]

Fine.   But name one religion that hasn't been treated poorly at some place and at some time.

The Nation of Islam has been a way bigger dick to other faiths than it has been persecuted. 

[celedhring]

"we don't eat meat/transfats/whatever"

It is way weirder than vegetarianism.  Coffee beans don't have central nervous systems.

They told me that they aren't allowed to ingest substances that can be addictive, which looks pretty reasonable.

I love my addictions, mind.

[Queequeg]

It doesn't really make sense, though, because so many Mormons are morbidly obese. 

[Sheilbh]

Fine.   But name one religion that hasn't been treated poorly at some place and at some time.

I think the oppression of Orthodoxy's heartland is pretty unique. First it's destroyed and oppressed by the Turks and then, once it's moved, by the Soviet Union.

Scottish Catholicism is very prickly and aggressive because of its historic oppression and outsiderness, but it's on the periphery of Catholic consciousness. Holyrood may have been, but Rome wasn't destroyed and oppressed in the same way Constantinople and Moscow were.

Similarly lots of Muslim heartlands were colonised (though experienced nothing like Orthodoxy) but not Mecca and Medina in the same way.

[The Minsky Moment]

Baal and El were worshipped throughout northern Israel at sites like Schechem and Bethel.  The bull iconography is associated withe those gods.  The story of the golden calfs worshipped under the reign of Jeroboam takes place at Bethel and acknowledges what may very well have been a common cult practice in the region.  The more famous Exodus story is an anachronistic reflection of that practice.

I realize that but Mormonism purposefully adopts the religious imagery of the pre-Monotheistic Israelites.  Of Canaan.  I don't think any other Abrahamic faith does that.  Moses destroying the graven images and the golden calf is pretty much the starting point in Genesis of a faith that we can recognize.

My point is that the Biblical narrative about the origins of the Monotheistic Israelites is a constructed one.  The destruction of the golden calfs by Moses is not a historical event.  The worship of Baal, El and other Canaanite gods throughout the monarchic period probably is historical on the other hand.  In fact, the Bibilical narrative likely represents an attempt to project back quite deep into the past a cultic purity and exclusivity that developed much later.  We are dealing with constructed, mythical narrative, and the subsequent iconography (both positive and negative) is built up upon that.  Mormonism is really more of the same; a key difference is that its origin takes place in the full light of history in an era of mass literacy and printing so the mythologizing looks more transparent and outlandish. 

The baptisms are at best tacky and very bad form; the presence of the bull iconography is no more than a minor detail.

[Queequeg]

My point is that the Biblical narrative about the origins of the Monotheistic Israelites is a constructed one.  The destruction of the golden calfs by Moses is not a historical event.  The worship of Baal, El and other Canaanite gods throughout the monarchic period probably is historical on the other hand.

I didn't say that I believed that the destruction of the Golden Calf was a historical event; rather it's part of the mythologizing of the transformation of the Israelite faith from desert Canaanite faith with a particularly strong local Baal cult.  "Hey, don't make golden images of cows!" "Hey, don't murder your first born sons as an offering!" By the time of the Babylonian Exodus, these reforms had become commandments against all idolatry and strict monotheism.  Mormonism really rejects a lot of that.  Apotheosis and a "Mother God" are core Mormon beliefs.  I really think it exists outside the Abrahamic tradition in the same way that Rastafarianism or Nation of Islam does.

Mormonism is really more of the same; a key difference is that its origin takes place in the full light of history in an era of mass literacy and printing so the mythologizing looks more transparent and outlandish. 

IDK if I agree with this much.  The Old Testament reflects truly ancient Levantine beliefs and from a very early date (maybe post-Egyptian exodus) some actual history.  Mormons think Ancient Hebrews wrote a long text in gold in a language that didn't exist about their trip in a saucer-shaped ship across to America, where they had wars with elephants and bronze weapons and chariots and other stuff that reflects nothing other than the insipid imagination of an upstate NY huckster with a 3rd grade education and sub-Lettow writing and critical thinking ability. 

[Queequeg]

[mongers]

....
that reflects nothing other than the insipid imagination of an upstate NY huckster with a 3rd grade education and sub-Lettow writing and critical thinking ability.

I don't think that's fair as Lettow is probably one of the most imaginative posters on Languish, he has a very definite writing style and excellent command of the language.

[Queequeg]

Probably. 

[Capetan Mihali]

Well, Joseph Smith was no slouch himself, in the genre at least.