Ukraine's European Revolution?

[Barrister]

He's going after the Catholics too

I would have guessed the one lesson he'd learn from the fall of Communism is don't fuck with the Pope

Russian media/propaganda also seems to be making a big deal about the small but rapidly growing Protestant movement in western Ukraine.  I've read several anti-Ukraine articles or comments where Russians are outraged and/or amused that the acting Ukrainian president is a Baptist.  Which from my American perspective seems like a bizarre criticism.  And yes, I know how Russia has taken steps to suppress non-traditional religious organizations so it's a big deal to them.  But still...

There's a protestant movement in Ukraine?

So what parts of Ukrainian culture and identity do you actually like?

The parts that I grew up with?

Surely you can identify with the love/hate/love relationship with your own cultural upbringing?

[Admiral Yi]

How has Orthodoxy been persecuted, other than by Communist regimes?

[derspiess]

There's a protestant movement in Ukraine?

Yeah.  The downside is a lot of it seems to be of the holy roller variety that you & I don't identify with so much.  But still...

[Queequeg]

My relationship with Mormonism was at least 80% hate.  I'm lucky I was in the Hyde Park ward (near the University of Chicago, I had Grad Students as Sunday school teachers), and I kind of like desert, but besides that I have nothing but contempt for it. 

[Queequeg]

How has Orthodoxy been persecuted, other than by Communist regimes?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_of_Brest
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Crusade
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_on_Lake_Peipus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dev%C5%9Firme

[derspiess]

My relationship with Mormonism was at least 80% hate.  I'm lucky I was in the Hyde Park ward (near the University of Chicago, I had Grad Students as Sunday school teachers), and I kind of like desert, but besides that I have nothing but contempt for it. 

My early impression of it was formed by a small group of douchebags I went to high school with.  Took a little while for my opinion to moderate.

[Sheilbh]

How has Orthodoxy been persecuted, other than by Communist regimes?

Large chunks spent most of their time under the Ottomans. Catholic Christian regimes were very unfriendly too. It's only with Vatican II really that Western and Eastern Christianity (even at the level of within the Catholic Church) approach each other with respect.

Sure.  But there's not much reason to think that now, not in Eastern Europe anyway.  I'm not as well-read as you are on it, but I chalk it up to just the generally Russian paranoia about everyone having it in for them.

Orthodoxy is a big part of Putin's political identity. Another reason many Western conservative useful idiots sympathise with him.

[derspiess]

How has Orthodoxy been persecuted, other than by Communist regimes?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_of_Brest
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Crusade
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_on_Lake_Peipus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dev%C5%9Firme

Yeah, that's all so recent & relevant

[Sheilbh]

My relationship with Mormonism was at least 80% hate.  I'm lucky I was in the Hyde Park ward (near the University of Chicago, I had Grad Students as Sunday school teachers), and I kind of like desert, but besides that I have nothing but contempt for it.

A couple of Mormons missionaries tried to convert me once. It didn't work.

[derspiess]

Orthodoxy is a big part of Putin's political identity. Another reason many Western conservative useful idiots sympathise with him.

A reason, but not a big one.  It all needs to stop, regardless.

[Queequeg]

My relationship with Mormonism was at least 80% hate.  I'm lucky I was in the Hyde Park ward (near the University of Chicago, I had Grad Students as Sunday school teachers), and I kind of like desert, but besides that I have nothing but contempt for it.

A couple of Mormons missionaries tried to convert me once. It didn't work.

TBH the only response a Mormon church or temple has been able to elicit in me in a decade is aesthetic horror or boredom.  They are uniquely hideous buildings, and the laity (very little professional clergy involved in day-to-day business of the ward) use incredibly powerful cleaning supplies when cleaning it, meaning they always smell.

[Queequeg]

How has Orthodoxy been persecuted, other than by Communist regimes?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_of_Brest
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Crusade
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_on_Lake_Peipus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dev%C5%9Firme

Yeah, that's all so recent & relevant

Osama talks about how awful the Crusades where and reconquering Andalus.  Memories are longer everywhere outside of America and Europe.

[Sheilbh]

Osama talks about how awful the Crusades where and reconquering Andalus.  Memories are longer everywhere outside of America and Europe.

Hell even Alex Salmond's referendum on Scottish independence was planned for the 800th anniversary of Bannockburn.

[Admiral Yi]

But Squeelus, you said "Orthodoxy has see itself as persecuted since 1204, not without reason."  That suggests Orthodoxy has been persecuted up to the present.  I don't see that at all.

And I haven't clicked any of your links yet, but isn't that just Ottomans and Slavs killing the hell out of each other?

[celedhring]

My relationship with Mormonism was at least 80% hate.  I'm lucky I was in the Hyde Park ward (near the University of Chicago, I had Grad Students as Sunday school teachers), and I kind of like desert, but besides that I have nothing but contempt for it.

A couple of Mormons missionaries tried to convert me once. It didn't work.

The only two Mormons I ever met were extremely super-nice people. Also, besides the "we can't drink caffeine" bit (which isn't weirder than "we don't eat meat/transfats/whatever"), and the fact they both spoke Spanish after spending time proselitizing in Latin America, I'd have never been able to tell they were religious types.