Ukraine's European Revolution?

[Admiral Yi]

Not to correct you on your own nicknames, but Cal's not "Boner," is he? 

You're absolutely right.

[jimmy olsen]

I know Americans have this in the bone dislike of separatism, but really what's the problem? I mean forcing Serbs and Bosniacs to live together isn't working, so it certainly wouldn't on a larger scale.

I worked fine for 80 years.

If the world had half as many countries it would be a much better place.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

I know Americans have this in the bone dislike of separatism, but really what's the problem? I mean forcing Serbs and Bosniacs to live together isn't working, so it certainly wouldn't on a larger scale.

I worked fine for 80 years.

clearly not.

[Lettow77]

If the world had half as many countries it would be a much better place.

One of the few ways I could see this being true is if it referred to the sovereignty of African countries being revoked and restored to responsible western rule.

[Iormlund]

You know more about this stuff than me, but I think the Ukraine, and Eastern Europe in general, has been destined to lag behind Western Europe because of the climate.

At least in Spain and Italy, the better the climate is, the less advanced the economy will be.

[Neil]

If the world had half as many countries it would be a much better place.

One of the few ways I could see this being true is if it referred to the sovereignty of African countries being revoked and restored to responsible western rule.

This is a good and important thought.

[The Larch]

You know more about this stuff than me, but I think the Ukraine, and Eastern Europe in general, has been destined to lag behind Western Europe because of the climate.

At least in Spain and Italy, the better the climate is, the less advanced the economy will be.

Warmer =/= Better

[Iormlund]

It is when you suffer the Cierzo.

[derspiess]

I know Americans have this in the bone dislike of separatism, but really what's the problem? I mean forcing Serbs and Bosniacs to live together isn't working, so it certainly wouldn't on a larger scale.

I worked fine for 80 years.

If the world had half as many countries it would be a much better place.

I'm with Shielbh-- it only 'worked' under an iron fist.  No sense in forcing together people who hate each other.  Maybe 100 years from now they'd be able to put aside their petty differences, but not now. 

[Agelastus]

I know Americans have this in the bone dislike of separatism, but really what's the problem? I mean forcing Serbs and Bosniacs to live together isn't working, so it certainly wouldn't on a larger scale.

I worked fine for 80 years.

If the world had half as many countries it would be a much better place.

What worked out fine for 80 years?

If you're talking about Yugoslavia I would have thought that the events during WWII would have clued you in to the fact that 1919-1939 Yugoslavia wasn't a particularly functional place; it relied on the Serbs holding down the rest.

If you're talking about Bosnia, the peoples of that area never had to live together without an outside force demanding that they "be nice" to each other until the 1990s - and look what happened then.

[alfred russel]

Ok, so you've revised it from climate to "population density + pre-WWI doesn't count + climate" that renders the Ukraine "destined to lag behind"??

And unlike Germany, the Ukraine actually has a Mediterranean climate within its borders (in the Crimea), and similarly benefits from being near warmer countries like Romania, Bulgaria, and Turkey... Or did you mean "being near other rich countries" as the criterion?

Not to mention, of course, how tragically impossible it has been for areas like Colorado, Iowa, Minnesota, Saskatchewan, and Alberta to prosper since they're hamstrung by crippling climactic impediments.

f you look at Eurasia at the European latitudes, if you walk from west to east the climate will get colder, the populations less dense, and the populations poorer as you go. This will be the general trend until you start to approach the Pacific Ocean.

There are probably close to a hundred countries in Eurasia. Draw a line through central europe. With very few exceptions, every country to the west of the line is wealthier than the countries to the east. The exceptions are some rather dysfunctional oil countries, a island country (Singapore), and countries on the other side of Eurasia next to the Ocean (Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan).

I don't think that is an accident. Agriculture isn't the base of wealth today, but it was before industrialization got going. The warmer temperatures coming off the Atlantic and Gulf Stream meant higher agriculture production, which meant higher population densities, more trade, more incentive for infrastructure development, more opportunity for economic specialization, etc. The immediate Black Sea coast may have a temperate climate, but it is isolated. There may be a reason the area hasn't stood out culturally at any point in the historical period (unlike western or southern europe).

Kiev is roughly on the same latitude as Winnepeg, Paris, and Irkutsk. Colorado is much lower and not really comparable.

[Malthus]

Woah. Stuff is happening.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ukraine-repeals-anti-protest-laws-after-pm-resigns-1.2513611

PM resigns, anti-protest laws repealed.

The government is frantically making concessions, rather than cracking down with an iron fist. Does this mean the end for them is near? The protesters seem to think so.

[derspiess]

I still don't your line of argument here. 

Of course not.

Just because people get to learn two disparate languages due to living in a bilingual environment doesn't in any way connect these two languages.  People are capable of understanding multiple languages at the same time.

Okay, forget the bilingual part.  I'm just saying that geographical proximity combined with a certain degree of similarity between two languages can make them somewhat mutually intelligible.

I think I gave the example where Portuguese and Spanish have a decent bit of similarity but despite that similarity Portuguese sometimes sounds like gibberish to me.  Yet my wife, who lived close to Brazil for a good portion of her life (and was therefore exposed to Brazilian media) can understand pretty much everything a Portuguese speaker says.

Getting back to the Frisian youtube clip, I'll admit that I couldn't decipher more than a few words here & there.  But I've had next to zero exposure to it.  It's close enough to English that I would probably start picking some of it up over time with enough exposure. 

[Queequeg]

AR-Russia has never stood out culturally?

[alfred russel]

AR-Russia has never stood out culturally?

I was referring to the Ukraine, but since Russia is in the same area it is a fair point.

In the 19th and 20th centuries Russia obviously produced a lot of great art. In that sense, it stands out. However, it was overall backward compared to Western Europe. I don't think there is a point in history where the answer to "who is the international cultural leader" is "Russia".