Ukraine's European Revolution?

[crazy canuck]

Of course it is a shithole, it was part of the USSR.

Baltics have done okay for themselves.

AFAIK the Baltics have received a lot of assistance from Scandinavia since they became independent; not necessarily just in monetary terms, but in terms of cultural exchanges, help with infrastructure and governance, trade balance credits, organizing the armed forces and other institutions, dedicated sponsorship and guidance to enter the EU and NATO, etc. There was a very real sentiment of kinship - at least in Denmark and Sweden, not sure about Norway - and a desire to help the transition out of the USSR sphere and find their legs again.

I think that may have played a significant role, and I don't think any of the other SSRs have had similar help.

Whatever impact the aid had, the Estonians I know would say an even greater factor was cultural, not just because the Kinship factor with the Scandis but because the Estonians had a strong view of the themselves as industrious people (in addition to a very strong hatred of the Russians). 

[Liep]

Doesn't Danish have 3 cases? 

We don't have any.

[alfred russel]

Spellus, I love history and pulling history into all sorts of topics. But I don't see how Poland-Lithuania in the 18th century has much impact on income distribution today. For instance, in the US we generally discount the impact of the different economic systems of the Cherokee, Apachee, and Navajo when talking about why states are better off than others.

I don't think it's a coincidence that the sparsely populated but incredibly per capita wealthy United States of 1790 became the largest economy in the world, or that most of the wealthiest parts of the world in 1790 are still super rich.  Changing the basics of economic and political behavior requires massive, violent shifts or long-term evolution.

We aren't comparing Germany and Chad right now. East and West Ukraine are not radically different economically, and has been pointed out the East = Rich, West = Poor dynamic has not been constant. If they were at or near parity during periods of the recent past, going to the 18th century for the current disparity seems like a stretch.

[Queequeg]

Doesn't Danish have 3 cases? 

We don't have any.

Apparently there are two Danish "classes" and both Swedish and Danish have some vestigial genitive.  It's interesting though, I didn't realize how close they were. 

I'm not really sure Danish is all that close to standard English, though.  There's a very famous story of a Northumbrian or other Northern dialect speaker going up to Iceland during the War and and learning Icelandic in a couple of weeks because the Northumbrian dialect was so Scandi.  I've seen a lot of Danish movies though and I've never been able to understand so much as a numeral. 

[alfred russel]

I've seen a lot of Danish movies though and I've never been able to understand so much as a numeral.

You are a better man than I am. I've never seen a Danish movie, but if I started watching them, I am sure I would give up after one or two films if I couldn't make out a single word.

[Queequeg]

We aren't comparing Germany and Chad right now. East and West Ukraine are not radically different economically, and has been pointed out the East = Rich, West = Poor dynamic has not been constant. If they were at or near parity during periods of the recent past, going to the 18th century for the current disparity seems like a stretch.

Hmm.

Well historically the shitty Russian agricultural system was not established in Galicia and western and to some extent central Ukraine, so they had an advantage in agricultural production, in addition to the land basically being able to shit crops.  However, collectivization and the holodomor fucked that up.  But I think Eastern Ukraine had some real industrial advantages.  I'd kind of expect it to eventually become something like Belgium; agricultural Flanders beat out by Industrial Wallonia, eventually beat out by post-industrial Flanders.  That's probably what the pro-EU Ukrainian activists want too.

[Queequeg]

I've seen a lot of Danish movies though and I've never been able to understand so much as a numeral.

You are a better man than I am. I've never seen a Danish movie, but if I started watching them, I am sure I would give up after one or two films if I couldn't make out a single word.

I meant to say they were subtitled if that wasn't clear. 

[alfred russel]

Hmm.

Well historically the shitty Russian agricultural system was not established in Galicia and western and to some extent central Ukraine, so they had an advantage in agricultural production, in addition to the land basically being able to shit crops.  However, collectivization and the holodomor fucked that up.  But I think Eastern Ukraine had some real industrial advantages.  I'd kind of expect it to eventually become something like Belgium; agricultural Flanders beat out by Industrial Wallonia, eventually beat out by post-industrial Flanders.  That's probably what the pro-EU Ukrainian activists want too.

You know more about this stuff than me, but I think the Ukraine, and Eastern Europe in general, has been destined to lag behind Western Europe because of the climate.

[Admiral Yi]

I once watched a Dutch movie with no subtitles. 

[alfred russel]

I meant to say they were subtitled if that wasn't clear.

[alfred russel]

I once watched a Dutch movie with no subtitles. 

The language of love is universal. 

[Admiral Yi]

The language of love is universal. 

It was a cop movie.

[garbon]

The language of love is universal. 

It was a cop movie.

The language of love.

[DGuller]

I've seen a lot of Danish movies though and I've never been able to understand so much as a numeral.

You are a better man than I am. I've never seen a Danish movie, but if I started watching them, I am sure I would give up after one or two films if I couldn't make out a single word.

[Liep]

Apparently there are two Danish "classes" and both Swedish and Danish have some vestigial genitive.  It's interesting though, I didn't realize how close they were.

Classes? And that's only true if vestigial means 'sort of'.