Brewers' help requested

[merithyn]

I had some success using 'champagne yeast', is some what vigorous whilst fermenting.

Are you just using apple juice, if so is it only made from concentrates ? 

Last time I made it I put in a few mashed apples with pure apple juice.

We used Lalvin EC - 1118, which is a wine yeast. I'm not keen on using champagne yeast, since I don't overly care for the bubbling aspect of it, but if this doesn't work, I may give it a go.

We bought pasteurized cider with no preservatives to use. It comes from an apple orchard near town that's relatively famous for their cider, and one of the brewmeisters in town uses them exclusively for his hard cider. So it's not the product, I don't think. It's the process.

I have made hard cider, and it was so long ago I only vaguely remember the process, but I think I used champagne yeast as well.  I know I've used Lalvin EC-1118 for something.

Yeah, the Lalvin EC - 1118 is my go-to for most of my meads, so it's what I used on the cider. We'll see how it turns out this time.

[Caliga]

We bought pasteurized cider with no preservatives to use. It comes from an apple orchard near town that's relatively famous for their cider, and one of the brewmeisters in town uses them exclusively for his hard cider. So it's not the product, I don't think. It's the process.

When I did hard cider I got unpasteurized cider with no preservatives.  It's illegal in Massachusetts but the orchard guy sold it to me under the table--it had just been made illegal because some dumbass drank some of it straight and died from an e.coli infection.  Nanny state to the rescue 

[merithyn]

We bought pasteurized cider with no preservatives to use. It comes from an apple orchard near town that's relatively famous for their cider, and one of the brewmeisters in town uses them exclusively for his hard cider. So it's not the product, I don't think. It's the process.

When I did hard cider I got unpasteurized cider with no preservatives.  It's illegal in Massachusetts but the orchard guy sold it to me under the table--it had just been made illegal because some dumbass drank some of it straight and died from an e.coli infection.  Nanny state to the rescue 

Yeah, it's illegal here, too, to sell in the stores, but apparently the orchard will sell it "privately" if you ask. I didn't bother. I've read that unpastuerized is better for complexity of taste, but isn't really essential for the actual brewing process. Lemme get it to taste okay before I worry about "complexity".

[merithyn]

Was just reading up on Bog Myrtle.

Oh yeah..... Ed, you should get your vineyard to work on something with this stuff for you.

Parts used: Fresh or recently dried branches, leaves and nut cones.

Aroma & taste: The leaves of Bog myrtle are astringent, balsamic, bitter,
with a strong, not unpleasant, rather spicy aroma.

Brewing method: The leaves of Bog myrtle are used for
their bittering and aromatic actions and should be boiled as
with hops. The nut cones contains delicate and volatile
resins which have a strong vasodilating action, as well
as narcotic and stupefying properties. Because the resins
dissolve more readily in alcohol, some of the fresh herb should
be added to the fermenter to work with the alcohol that the yeast
produce during fermentation.

[derspiess]

My family has been buying unpasteurized cider from a place in my mom's hometown for decades.  My teetotalling grandma even liked to put an extra gallon or two at the back of the fridge-- it acquired a small but noticeable carbonation and a slight tingle of alcohol if you let it go for a little while. 

Spontaneous fermentation FTW.

[Scipio]

I had some success using 'champagne yeast', is some what vigorous whilst fermenting.

Are you just using apple juice, if so is it only made from concentrates ? 

Last time I made it I put in a few mashed apples with pure apple juice.

We used Lalvin EC - 1118, which is a wine yeast. I'm not keen on using champagne yeast, since I don't overly care for the bubbling aspect of it, but if this doesn't work, I may give it a go.

We bought pasteurized cider with no preservatives to use. It comes from an apple orchard near town that's relatively famous for their cider, and one of the brewmeisters in town uses them exclusively for his hard cider. So it's not the product, I don't think. It's the process.

I have made hard cider, and it was so long ago I only vaguely remember the process, but I think I used champagne yeast as well.  I know I've used Lalvin EC-1118 for something.

Yeah, the Lalvin EC - 1118 is my go-to for most of my meads, so it's what I used on the cider. We'll see how it turns out this time.

You are suffering from the popular misconception regarding champagne yeast. Modern champagne yeast is the primary yeast used for red wine fermentation; it's a neutral-tasting hybrid yeast that works very well at a wide range of temperatures, and is quite vigorous. If used in secondary fermentation, it contributes to a very fine carbonation, akin to nitrogen forced carbonation, in the bottle.

Your lager is too warm if it's at 70 degrees. You have to keep it below 65 for a week in primary, and once you bottle it, you have to bring it up to about 70 for it to properly carbonate, then chill the bottles ever after, if, of course, you're bottle conditioning.

[merithyn]

You are suffering from the popular misconception regarding champagne yeast. Modern champagne yeast is the primary yeast used for red wine fermentation; it's a neutral-tasting hybrid yeast that works very well at a wide range of temperatures, and is quite vigorous. If used in secondary fermentation, it contributes to a very fine carbonation, akin to nitrogen forced carbonation, in the bottle.

No, I'm telling you what my personal experiences are after having used champagne yeast in both meads and ciders. I don't particularly care for it.

Your lager is too warm if it's at 70 degrees. You have to keep it below 65 for a week in primary, and once you bottle it, you have to bring it up to about 70 for it to properly carbonate, then chill the bottles ever after, if, of course, you're bottle conditioning.

Okay, thanks. That's good to know. The fridge will help, I think. The guy is going to call me this evening with the dimensions, which are, hopefully, big enough for the pail and the glass carboy. And yeah, I'll be bottle conditioning with priming sugar.

[mongers]

Coincidentally just had this drop in my inbox a few minutes ago:

Weston's Cider

Halloween is coming, if you're planning a party, we have 20% off all orders of
our 500ml bottle cases, but get your order in as the offer ends at midnight on
Halloween.

http://www.westons-direct.co.uk/Shop/SPECIAL-OFFERS/

[merithyn]

I hosted about 10 people at my house yesterday to make ciders, meads, lager, and cordials. They're all coming over again in two weeks to rack their stuff, and I'm planning to make a Grut then (using bog myrtle, which is harder to find than anticipated). Two weeks after that, I'm having everyone back again to bottle their stuff. THAT day I'm going to do up a five-gallon batch of Holiday Spiced Ale using a Scotch Ale kit and some oranges, cloves, and grains of paradise.

I may use orange flavoring instead of actual oranges, though, because I'm worried the citrus acid will cause an off flavor. Anyone played with that in ales?

[mongers]

After an initial spurt of enthusiasm, interest in the thread nas drooped. 

[Caliga]

You realize that a lot of us are at work, right?

[The Brain]

Brewing. Waiting.

[merithyn]

After an initial spurt of enthusiasm, interest in the thread nas drooped. 

I asked a brewing group on Facebook, and they suggested orange zest instead of actual orange juice. Now, to determine amount of zest per 5-gallon bucket of wort....

[mongers]

After an initial spurt of enthusiasm, interest in the thread nas drooped. 

I asked a brewing group on Facebook, and they suggested orange zest instead of actual orange juice. Now, to determine amount of zest per 5-gallon bucket of wort....

Mark Knopfler would be disappointed. 

[Sheilbh]

I know nothing about brewing. But I cook and bake a fair bit, so this may help.

I'd use zest (probably with a peeler given the amount you'll need for beer) because that contains the aromatic oils of the fruit. So the flavour and smell will come across with that better. Don't use any of the white pith because it's extremely bitter and the source of the pectins which make it great for jam or marmalade but my do something weird to beer. From baking I know you should add it towards the end of the kneading process because there are some acids in it that would retard yeast-gluten working to form a structure.

Don't know how that works with beer but you'd want to add it once the yeast is already active I suspect.

Don't know about quantity but for what it's worth I'd use about one orange's zest in a hefty stew.