The Government Shutdown Countdown Lowdown MEGATHREAD

[PDH]

Thomas Jefferson's pro-farmer stance was what caused grumbler to vote for him in the first place.

  Grumbler couldn't vote for Jefferson since he was officially a citizen of Ur.

[Razgovory]

Thomas Jefferson's pro-farmer stance was what caused grumbler to vote for him in the first place.

  Grumbler couldn't vote for Jefferson since he was officially a citizen of Ur.

Besides, he was caught up in the XYZ affair at the time.

[Razgovory]

So exactly how have you missed the federal government thus far, nothing abstract, a genuine need unmet?

For example:

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/2013/10/14/131014taco_talk_talbot?utm_source=tny&utm_campaign=generalsocial&utm_medium=facebook

[...]

What the Republican intransigents were willing to deprive of funds, besides the Capitol police, included the following: The Centers for Disease Control, which said that it would have to stop its seasonal flu-prevention program and would "have significantly reduced capacity to respond to outbreak investigations." The Environmental Protection Agency, which would close down almost entirely, and the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, which would stop most of its inspections. The wic program, which provides healthy food supplements for millions of pregnant women, new mothers, and babies, and could run on temporary federal funds only through the end of the month. The Food and Drug Administration, which said it "will be unable to support the majority of its food safety, nutrition, and cosmetics activities," and would have to halt "the majority of the laboratory research necessary to inform public health decision-making." The National Institutes of Health, which announced that it would not be enrolling any new patients in ongoing studies or clinical trials.

[...]

Somehow I don't think those kind of things bother him.

[Eddie Teach]

Age jokes aside, Grumbler's point is valid. It is way too early to declare the services that have stopped to be unnecessary. Their effects aren't immediate, but residual.

[Ideologue]

I would like to see us all enjoy prosperity and a rising tide that could lift all boats. Government spending and programs that make us all more dependent on a shrinking number of tax payers logically can not be the solution.

What's illogical about it?  Walk me through it.

You can have growth with wage stagnation and decline for a majority; you can have tax-and-spend policies even if there's only one taxpayer in the country and he makes thirteen trillion dollars a year.

It's "illogical" because you prefer the tyranny of nature to the benevolence of the state, Pete.  It's also, I suggest--maybe a little?--disingenuous.

[Admiral Yi]

What's illogical about it?  Walk me through it.

You can have growth with wage stagnation and decline for a majority; you can have tax-and-spend policies even if there's only one taxpayer in the country and he makes thirteen trillion dollars a year.

It's "illogical" because you prefer the tyranny of nature to the benevolence of the state, Pete.  It's also, I suggest--maybe a little?--disingenuous.

I agree that it's not illogical.  It is, however, prone to internal tensions that only a few states have managed to resolve.

If a majority of the voting population is a net recipient of free money, there is no natural limit to the demand for free money.

As free money becomes more abundant, marginal work will be disincentivized, further increasing demand for free money and further reducing revenue.

Taxable income generated by the golden goose Xtile is not exogeneous, i.e. it is not static; it will decrease in response to increased taxation.

[Ideologue]

That sounds more like a problem with democracy than high taxation.

In seriousness, obviously the solution is to find a middle, metastable ground.

[Admiral Yi]

That should do the trick!

[Darth Wagtaros]

Yah. Three easy steps to homeostasis. 

[jimmy olsen]

Do we have an Obamacare thread? I've seen some interesting critical articles on it, but I don't think it really fits this thread, even though Obamacare is the reason the GOP is holding the government hostage.

EDIT: Never mind, found one

[Siege]

I thought congress had passed a bill to fund the entire military. I don't know why they send the DA civilian workes home, or wby the commissary is closed. Didn't I post this already?

[Admiral Yi]

I thought congress had passed a bill to fund the entire military.

Only the uniforms.

[Admiral Yi]

Which, now that i think about it, does undercut the "piecemeal bad" argument somewhat.

[Jacob]

The problem is that analogy doesn't hold up anymore.  The result of Republican policies is poverty, disease and death.

Yeah... I'm pretty sure that if you look at all major economic indicators, the Democrats have a way better track record for the US than Republicans these last 5 decades or so.

[garbon]

So exactly how have you missed the federal government thus far, nothing abstract, a genuine need unmet?

For example:

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/2013/10/14/131014taco_talk_talbot?utm_source=tny&utm_campaign=generalsocial&utm_medium=facebook

[...]

What the Republican intransigents were willing to deprive of funds, besides the Capitol police, included the following: The Centers for Disease Control, which said that it would have to stop its seasonal flu-prevention program and would "have significantly reduced capacity to respond to outbreak investigations." The Environmental Protection Agency, which would close down almost entirely, and the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, which would stop most of its inspections. The wic program, which provides healthy food supplements for millions of pregnant women, new mothers, and babies, and could run on temporary federal funds only through the end of the month. The Food and Drug Administration, which said it "will be unable to support the majority of its food safety, nutrition, and cosmetics activities," and would have to halt "the majority of the laboratory research necessary to inform public health decision-making." The National Institutes of Health, which announced that it would not be enrolling any new patients in ongoing studies or clinical trials.

[...]

We are supposed to be sad about the closing of OSHA, EPA and FDA?