How many people in Quebec are like Viper and Grallon?

[Admiral Yi]

In my limited experience(watching Flight of the Conchords), they're more like Australians. Or perhaps more like Canadians, in that their identity is mostly involved in being not Australian. 

I believe Flight of the Conchords is the Australians taking the piss out of the Kiwis.  The funnier looking of the two dudes is Australian, and if I'm not mistaken so is the ginger maninger.

[frunk]

I believe Flight of the Conchords is the Australians taking the piss out of the Kiwis.  The funnier looking of the two dudes is Australian, and if I'm not mistaken so is the ginger maninger.

Both of them are native New Zealanders.

[Admiral Yi]

Kay.

[Jacob]

In many ways Canadian culture is similar to American culture; it would surprising if it were not since America and Canada share many traits and are adjacent to one another.

I don't see why you should exclude hockey from a definition of Canadian culture; association football is a significant component of, say, Brazilian culture as it is of Danish culture (but in different ways), and American football and Aussie rules football are components of American and Australian cultures respectively, and so on.

I think it's hard to succinctly define any culture comprehensively, though you can usually come up with some pithy stereotypes if you want. But I'll give it a go, since I haven't seen Zoupa for a while and I like him

A culture is a (continually changing) collection of shared symbols, behaviours, experiences, values, social expectations, and institutions.

Canadian symbols include: the Stanley Cup; the maple leaf; Terry Fox; the beaver; the cottage; official bilingualism and multiculturalism; the loonie and the toonie and the way our money looks; hockey; the Hudson Bay Co.; the remembrance poppy; the CN tower; Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Calgary; Anne of Green Gables; maple syrup; the never ending fields of the prairies; Albertan oil money; parliament; the Governor General; the CBC; the lumber jack; the back country; the Pacific Railway; Air Canada; Canadian wine (because other than the icewine, only Canadians drink the stuff); medicare; the snow and the clothes that go with it; our olympic and hockey teams; the RCMP

Canadian shared experiences, values, and behaviours include: swimming in the lake at the cottage (whatever cottage that is); struggling with the other official language in school; observing Stanley Cup media fever every year, whether you care or not; at the very least being aware of underage drinking and fake ID even if you don't partake yourself; talking to guidance counsellors about university admissions; the way we line up; the way we say "sorry" and other expectations about what is rude and what is polite; having to think about how you define your identity in relation to the US, even if you don't personally care because someone else cares; having on opinion on Quebec sovereignty and language issues; multiculturalism (again, I know - it's both a shared experience and a symbol); the metric system; not having real fixed-rate mortgages, in spite of calling them that; very exact expectations about personal space (everyone has them of course, but Canadians tend to have similar ones to other Canadians); the expectation that the medicare system is there and works; knowing that we can "make it big" by accessing the big pond to the South of the border but we don't have to at all if we don't want to; a foreign policy attitude that walks the line of being "nice" (no naked national interest for us) with being robust and responsible (keeping the heritage of Juno Beach and Vimy Ridge etc), and not having a "sphere of influence"; an awareness of Native issues, even if is no more than a slight nagging guilt or an abrasive dismissal; a certain level of trust in the government; shovelling and/or salting the sidewalk/ driveway; a cuisine that's American, but not quite; backyard bbq; Canadian Tire money; the occasional hockey riot; a whole number of TV shows and films (many of which are shared with the US, but some which are not)... and there are many more, I'm sure.

There are a ton of experiences, attitudes and expectations that are shared amongst Canadians. Not all Canadians share all of them, of course, and some of those experiences, attitudes, and expectations are not unique to Canadians alone - but the specific combination of those behaviours, and our shared symbols, are a significant part of what defines Canadian culture.

You can, of course, argue there is no such thing as Canadian culture - but the only legitimate reason is because you're either taking the piss, or making a political point.

[Malthus]

No offence, but the intention wasn't to amuse you Yanks, but to create a society we would want to live in. 

As cultures are not created by intention, I assume you're talking about the slogan.

The slogan was clearly formulated with the intention of offending no one.  Who can possibly be against good government?

Tyrants, for one. Those wishing to pass laws hammering minorities, for another.

And who could possibly be against "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?" Yet Americans see value in that nonetheless.

I dunno where you are going with this thing. All slogans are designed to be attractive, not offensive. 

My point is that these slogans, trite as they may be, are revealing nonetheless of cultural differences which are actually significant. As others have noted, Canada and the US share lots of traits, as isn't surprising. They do, however, have some pretty significant differences, which are really matters of cultural emphasis - Canadians tend to value social harmony more, while Americans tend to value individual freedom more, as demonstrated by choice of slogans. Americans  tend to find Canadians dull (see, for example: Yi), while Canadians are astonished at the bizzare things Americans put up with, like gun nuts and lack of sensible medicare. 

[Admiral Yi]

I think you support my point Malthus.

My personal opinion is that the US was established as an experiment in maximizing individual liberty.  As you pointed out, that can and has come with some costs.

"Peace, order, and good government" on the other hand doesn't suggest any trade offs, any hard choices.  "Oh shoot, I would love me some bad government but too late now."

[Jacob]

I think you support my point Malthus.

My personal opinion is that the US was established as an experiment in maximizing individual liberty.  As you pointed out, that can and has come with some costs.

That seems awfully theoretical for large and diverse nation such as the US.

"Peace, order, and good government" on the other hand doesn't suggest any trade offs, any hard choices.  "Oh shoot, I would love me some bad government but too late now."

Okay, sure.

So what?

[Malthus]

I think you support my point Malthus.

My personal opinion is that the US was established as an experiment in maximizing individual liberty.  As you pointed out, that can and has come with some costs.

"Peace, order, and good government" on the other hand doesn't suggest any trade offs, any hard choices.  "Oh shoot, I would love me some bad government but too late now."

But that's total bullshit. Any choice you make entails hard choices and costs. Specifically, when next to the comparative giant the US, deliberately choosing do be different entails significant hard choices and costs. 

To give but one example, emphasizing social harmony entails rewarding the outstanding less, which means that they are likely to seek to 'make it big' in the US - and so their services are lost to Canada. So, to make the example even more specific, Canada ends up with a sorta-okay medicare system, but the real star and guru heart surgeons tend to move to the US.

That's a deliberate choice of values, and it has costs. 

Or to turn your sneer around, "oh shoot, I wold love me some unhappiness but too late now". Who, exactly, doesn't want "happiness"?

[dps]

Some people enjoy wallowing in sorrow.

[Razgovory]

Wow, this thread certainly has delivered, as all these threads do.

Blatant racism, bigotry, and xenophobia not so cleverly disguised as some perverse form of national/racial/linguistic "pride". It is positively Orwellian.

I think I missed the racism

Viper going on and on about racism.  I don't think racism is an accurate term (though it may describe some Queberers.)

[merithyn]

That seems awfully theoretical for large and diverse nation such as the US.

At the time that was established as our slogan, however, we were neither large nor very diverse. We grew while our slogan remained the same, despite all of the challenges that came up with our growth and changes.

I'm not saying that Canada didn't. I'm just saying that applying the argument of how large and diverse the US is to our slogan is a bit disingenous.

[Jacob]

Or to turn your sneer around, "oh shoot, I wold love me some unhappiness but too late now". Who, exactly, doesn't want "happiness"?

... why'd you leave out life and liberty?

I think most people generally are in favour of those as well.

[Neil]

Life, yeah.  Liberty, not so much.

[Malthus]

Or to turn your sneer around, "oh shoot, I wold love me some unhappiness but too late now". Who, exactly, doesn't want "happiness"?

... why'd you leave out life and liberty?

I think most people generally are in favour of those as well.

Just to chose one.

After all, he left alone "peace" and "order", which most people are also in favour of. 

Point is that all slogans of this sort tend to be lists of good stuff that no-one really denies is good. What is sigificant is not that, it is the emphasis chosen.

Canadians love life and liberty (not to mention happiness) just like Americans, but they have chosen as a community to emphasize peace, order and good government.

[Berkut]

Life, yeah.  Liberty, not so much.

No shit.