Pope on gays : "Who am I to judge?"

[Viking]

Catholic means universal, or comprehensive.  It does not mean singular or identical.  So in having a universal church, the Church attempts to encompass all of mankind.  In doing so it allows for tremendous diversity!  Just look at the wide variety of catholic orders, of differing rites and services, or differing national churches.

There are comparitively few areas where the Church proclaims to have THE TRUTH(tm) in all caps.  For much of the human condition the Church does not proclaim to have a single, universal true answer.

And now you have turned the whole nature of the church on it's head. The doctines, dogma and teachings of the church are THE TRUTH (tm) and the church does have a single, universal "true" answer on all topics relating to the god, morals, the soul and the meaning of life. This encompasses virtually all parts of the human condition apart from technical details.

[Barrister]

Yes.

You reference someone lying while under oath.  I can tell you from personal experience that prosecuting someone for perjury - of saying something while under oath which that person knows to be false - is one of the most difficult offences to prove.  It is a specific intent offence.  It's not enough for someone to say a false statement.  We must show that that person knew it was false.

A classic red herring.  No one is accusing the Pope of perjury.

You were very obviously referencing perjury, what with the reference to "the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth", and then referencing my profession.

That's what makes it almost impossible to prove.  How do you know what's in someone's mind short of mind-reading?  There's only one fact pattern that I've seen support a successful perjury charge, and that's where the person admits to it.  If a person later says "yeah, I was lying while under oath" then, and pretty much only then, can you know what was in their mind.

I don't "know what's on someone's mind."  That's just moving the goal posts.  I do know that, when a person's actions say one thing and his mouth another, his mouth is the one that's got it wrong.

So, as a lawyer, words matter.  If someone's actions don't match their words, you say that.  You can point to an inconsistency or discrepancy.  But it's foolish to say that someone is saying things they know to be untrue.  After all, humanity's abilities in self-deception are quite amazing.

So it is foolishto say that X "is saying things they know to be untrue" but wise to say "X is saying this, but their actions prove their words false?"  That's foolish garbon-level nitpicking.  I'll stick to the clearer language, thanks.

Your language is anything but clear.  Even here at one point you talk about actions not meeting words, but then go back to 'saying things they know to be untrue'.

Yes - it is foolish to say that you know somebody is lying unless you can read their mind, or have other direct evidence about what they are thinking.  That is far from nitpicking.

Your anecdote is not relevant to the discussion.

I'm sorry you couldn't see the relevance of my anecdote.

[Barrister]

Catholic means universal, or comprehensive.  It does not mean singular or identical.  So in having a universal church, the Church attempts to encompass all of mankind.  In doing so it allows for tremendous diversity!  Just look at the wide variety of catholic orders, of differing rites and services, or differing national churches.

There are comparitively few areas where the Church proclaims to have THE TRUTH(tm) in all caps.  For much of the human condition the Church does not proclaim to have a single, universal true answer.

And now you have turned the whole nature of the church on it's head. The doctines, dogma and teachings of the church are THE TRUTH (tm) and the church does have a single, universal "true" answer on all topics relating to the god, morals, the soul and the meaning of life. This encompasses virtually all parts of the human condition apart from technical details.

Where exactly do you get your knowledge of catholicism from, anyways?  Because it's just so flawed.  You continue to treat the Catholic church like a bunch of fundy bible-thumpers, when that's pretty far from the truth.

I see you have skipped away from your attempted "gotcha" on what the word "catholic" means.

[Tamas]

via Imgflip Meme Maker

[Tamas]

via Imgflip Meme Maker

[Tamas]

via Imgflip Meme Maker

[garbon]

Tamas is a weirdo.

[Tamas]

Tamas is a weirdo.

I just remembered this meme-generator site. 

[Caliga]

via Imgflip Meme Maker

[garbon]

[Razgovory]

Tamas is a weirdo.

I just remembered this meme-generator site. 

You should focus on telling us about the latest AGEOD games.

[Viking]

Catholic means universal, or comprehensive.  It does not mean singular or identical.  So in having a universal church, the Church attempts to encompass all of mankind.  In doing so it allows for tremendous diversity!  Just look at the wide variety of catholic orders, of differing rites and services, or differing national churches.

There are comparitively few areas where the Church proclaims to have THE TRUTH(tm) in all caps.  For much of the human condition the Church does not proclaim to have a single, universal true answer.

And now you have turned the whole nature of the church on it's head. The doctines, dogma and teachings of the church are THE TRUTH (tm) and the church does have a single, universal "true" answer on all topics relating to the god, morals, the soul and the meaning of life. This encompasses virtually all parts of the human condition apart from technical details.

Where exactly do you get your knowledge of catholicism from, anyways?  Because it's just so flawed.  You continue to treat the Catholic church like a bunch of fundy bible-thumpers, when that's pretty far from the truth.

I see you have skipped away from your attempted "gotcha" on what the word "catholic" means.

sigh, history books. If you haven't managed to comprehend the central point we atheists here are trying to beat into your thick skull is that the catholic church is a organization peddling what it calls a universal, eternal and unchanging truth which changes with each advance in science and social mores. What you are apologizing is the latest god in a gap with acceptable social attitudes. Every pope has had a different one. The changing nature of this presentation of absolute truth is not consistent with any claim of special knowledge and the number of 180s the church has performed over time is not consistent with a better understanding of the nature of god. We know from science that 180s only happen when we know nothing about a field. In developed fields the evolving understandings about the nature of the universe usually do not change or alter previous knowledge but rather refine it.

[garbon]

Catholic means universal, or comprehensive.  It does not mean singular or identical.  So in having a universal church, the Church attempts to encompass all of mankind.  In doing so it allows for tremendous diversity!  Just look at the wide variety of catholic orders, of differing rites and services, or differing national churches.

There are comparitively few areas where the Church proclaims to have THE TRUTH(tm) in all caps.  For much of the human condition the Church does not proclaim to have a single, universal true answer.

And now you have turned the whole nature of the church on it's head. The doctines, dogma and teachings of the church are THE TRUTH (tm) and the church does have a single, universal "true" answer on all topics relating to the god, morals, the soul and the meaning of life. This encompasses virtually all parts of the human condition apart from technical details.

Where exactly do you get your knowledge of catholicism from, anyways?  Because it's just so flawed.  You continue to treat the Catholic church like a bunch of fundy bible-thumpers, when that's pretty far from the truth.

I see you have skipped away from your attempted "gotcha" on what the word "catholic" means.

sigh, history books. If you haven't managed to comprehend the central point we atheists here are trying to beat into your thick skull is that the catholic church is a organization peddling what it calls a universal, eternal and unchanging truth which changes with each advance in science and social mores. What you are apologizing is the latest god in a gap with acceptable social attitudes. Every pope has had a different one. The changing nature of this presentation of absolute truth is not consistent with any claim of special knowledge and the number of 180s the church has performed over time is not consistent with a better understanding of the nature of god. We know from science that 180s only happen when we know nothing about a field. In developed fields the evolving understandings about the nature of the universe usually do not change or alter previous knowledge but rather refine it.

Perhaps you should give up. You are even getting people like myself to side with the Catholic Church.

[Tamas]

You are a Republican garbon, that's basically the same thing.

[alfred russel]

Every time I see this thread I'm reminded of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEKyx_eTxBQ