McDonalds: "What, my peon, you don't work two full time jobs?"

[Sheilbh]

Apparently there's a paper done recently which suggests the US has the same problem with in-work welfare growing.

Food stamps recipients have doubled in the past 10 years, but even during the boom years (2003-07) they increased by 25%. The writers suggest one of the reasons is because, recently, the correlation between unemployment and poverty hasn't been strong. So employment grew, unemployment dropped but the poverty rate stayed more or less level during the good times. Obviously since the crash things got worse.

[Eddie Teach]

People can easily stay alive to continue being exploited at minimum wage. Sure, they might have to work overtime or stop paying the electric bill, but ending government subsidies is not going to make the market suddenly start paying enough to live in reasonable comfort for 40 hours of work.

[Ideologue]

Yeah, the EITC is complete fucking garbage.  Made $22k once, and I still actually paid taxes.  It's unbelievable.

Nothing much that's funnier than seeing freeloaders whine. 

I still actually paid taxes   

It's not freeloading if you're being taxed on a primary income that isn't even a living wage.  The reason I'm not living with my girlfriend is because when we set up a budget, making a combined income of $39k, we'd struggle anywhere other than a trailer in this area.  I made around $22k before, and ended up moving out of my own apartment back in with my family because it wasn't enough to get by.

Yeah, I guess all that vaunted critical thinking just failed grumbler at the moment.

I've not only never whined about paying taxes in years when I made a living wage, I've been proud of it, and have gone well out of my way to avoid evading them by paying the total wank of a use tax, etc.

[Sheilbh]

Keep in mind Shelf that historically fast food jobs have gone to younger people who are still in school.

Yeah and I agree with the system we have here of varied minimum wages for different ages.

Despite that my experience is that bosses still want some full time workers who are reliable for 40 hours a week, not just part-time with many other, more pressing commitments.

As I say from a British perspective I support raising the minimum wage to living wage levels here (the US doubling proposal is mad) but I think the worries with that aren't the impact on employment but immigration and inflation.

People can easily stay alive to continue being exploited at minimum wage. Sure, they might have to work overtime or stop paying the electric bill, but ending government subsidies is not going to make the market suddenly start paying enough to live in reasonable comfort for 40 hours of work.

If people can't live on a wage, but they can live on welfare that wage will rise. But I'm not talking about reasonable comfort, I'm talking subsistence.

[mongers]

Time for a real world example ?

Today I had an interview for a specialist buyer with an aerospace company. Essentially the person has to buy passenger jet spare parts to fulfil contract requirements already agreed with airlines. This means buying the fully certificated parts from across the world, arranging the appropriated express freighting and making sure they arrive in warehouse typically with 3 days, sometimes much shorter notice. 

So it's a fair bit of phone work, building good relations with suppliers, knowing/learning the 'market' and at all time trying to cut costs, as sometimes you'll have to buy parts at short notice at well above the contracted price to meet the agreed airline service contract. 

This could mean suddenly having to buy 15 7*7 air-filters, things half the size of a desk, from a company in Miami and getting them shipped within 24 hours across the Atlantic. That's could be quite expensive, especially if you get the deal too wrong, and consistently make several purchasing errors like that each week could end up costing your employer a fair amount of money.

I've sort of done something similar before, but not so 'high pressure' (whatever that means, after all outside hospital work, fighting wars, the odd governmental role and various other careers, what jobs are really life or death situations) and I can see where someone could continue building expertise in the job over a long period, all the while improving deals and saving ever more money for the employer.

So guess how much they're willing to pay you to do this ........

[Admiral Yi]

One BILLION dollars?

[Berkut]

I suspect the amount will be as little as they can get away with...?

[mongers]

I suspect the amount will be as little as they can get away with...?

Congratulations, I think that might sum up their approach ie they've got agreed contract income coming in regularly, so they just have to cut down all costs to make more money. 

So guess what the salary was ?

[The Brain]

Time for a real world example ?

Today I had an interview for a specialist buyer with an aerospace company. Essentially the person has to buy passenger jet spare parts to fulfil contract requirements already agreed with airlines. This means buying the fully certificated parts from across the world, arranging the appropriated express freighting and making sure they arrive in warehouse typically with 3 days, sometimes much shorter notice. 

So it's a fair bit of phone work, building good relations with suppliers, knowing/learning the 'market' and at all time trying to cut costs, as sometimes you'll have to buy parts at short notice at well above the contracted price to meet the agreed airline service contract. 

This could mean suddenly having to buy 15 7*7 air-filters, things half the size of a desk, from a company in Miami and getting them shipped within 24 hours across the Atlantic. That's could be quite expensive, especially if you get the deal too wrong, and consistently make several purchasing errors like that each week could end up costing your employer a fair amount of money.

I've sort of done something similar before, but not so 'high pressure' (whatever that means, after all outside hospital work, fighting wars, the odd governmental role and various other careers, what jobs are really life or death situations) and I can see where someone could continue building expertise in the job over a long period, all the while improving deals and saving ever more money for the employer.

So guess how much they're willing to pay you to do this ........

Market pay?

[crazy canuck]

People can easily stay alive to continue being exploited at minimum wage. Sure, they might have to work overtime or stop paying the electric bill, but ending government subsidies is not going to make the market suddenly start paying enough to live in reasonable comfort for 40 hours of work.

First Collector: At this festive time of year, Mr. Scrooge, it is more than usually desirable that we should make some slight provision for the poor and destitute.

Ebenezer: Are there no prisons?

First Collector: Plenty of prisons.

Ebenezer: And the union workhouses - are they still in operation?

First Collector: They are. I wish I could say they were not.

Ebenezer: Oh, from what you said at first I was afraid that something had happened to stop them in their useful course. I'm very glad to hear it.

First Collector: I don't think you quite understand us, sir. A few of us are endeavoring to buy the poor some meat and drink, and means of warmth.

Ebenezer: Why?

First Collector: Because it is at Christmastime that want is most keenly felt, and abundance rejoices. Now what can I put you down for?

Ebenezer: Huh! Nothing!

Second Collector: You wish to be anonymous?

Ebenezer: [firmly, but calmly] I wish to be left alone. Since you ask me what I wish sir, that is my answer. I help to support the establishments I have named; those who are badly off must go there.

First Collector: Many can't go there.

Second Collector: And some would rather die.

[Ideologue]

I suspect the amount will be as little as they can get away with...?

Congratulations, I think that might sum up their approach ie they've got agreed contract income coming in regularly, so they just have to cut down all costs to make more money. 

So guess what the salary was ?

Probably more than I think, which will just underline the hilarious differences between America and Europe yet again.  So I'm guessing the equivalent of $60k.

[mongers]

I suspect the amount will be as little as they can get away with...?

Congratulations, I think that might sum up their approach ie they've got agreed contract income coming in regularly, so they just have to cut down all costs to make more money. 

So guess what the salary was ?

Probably more than I think, which will just underline the hilarious differences between America and Europe yet again.  So I'm guessing the equivalent of $60k.

Try Minimum Wage, which is $19,700.

[The Brain]

I suspect the amount will be as little as they can get away with...?

Congratulations, I think that might sum up their approach ie they've got agreed contract income coming in regularly, so they just have to cut down all costs to make more money. 

So guess what the salary was ?

Probably more than I think, which will just underline the hilarious differences between America and Europe yet again.  So I'm guessing the equivalent of $60k.

Try Minimum Wage, which is $19,700.

Good for them. Cost is the profit killer.

[Razgovory]

I can see how you could make that argument.  It's similar to the "tips" discussion we had a while back.  Management pays it's employees less with the expectation that the public will pick up the rest by paying a tip.

I can see how you would neurotically stalk me.

It's nothing like the tip situation Raz.  A person performs labor to earn tips.  Nobody performs labor to earn food stamsp.

The issue is not work (since we are already talking about people who are working) or feeling sorry, but that people can survive on their wages.  If people go hungry they do bad things like unionize.  McDonalds doesn't feel like paying that much, so expects the public to pick up the rest.  Management who who expect the public do pick up the tab with tips are doing the same thing.

[Berkut]

I suspect the amount will be as little as they can get away with...?

Congratulations, I think that might sum up their approach ie they've got agreed contract income coming in regularly, so they just have to cut down all costs to make more money. 

So guess what the salary was ?

Probably more than I think, which will just underline the hilarious differences between America and Europe yet again.  So I'm guessing the equivalent of $60k.

Try Minimum Wage, which is $19,700.

Two possibilities then:

1. The job is not nearly as difficult as you say, or
2. They are never going to find anyone competent, and will have to raise the salary. A lot.

Assuming this is in the US, of course.