Boehner et. al. on Immigration Reform: "R. I. P."

[Razgovory]

Derspeiss you are a member of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy in good standing, when Republicans say we need more border security how much are we talking about?

Finishing the fence (which by law was supposed to be done last decade) and adding significantly more border security agents is a nice start.  We also need to formulate some metrics to measure progress, as Senator McCain has requested but for some reason our exceedingly feminine DHS secretary refuses to do.

Didn't the they put the national guard on the border?  Since "more security" is so open ended it seems like it's the phrase to repeat when you don't actually want to do anything.

[The Minsky Moment]

I'm also amused by the Orwellian spin of calling it immigration "reform."  Who can possibly be against reform?  Reform is always a good thing.

You mean like "welfare reform"?
Or is that the good kind?

[Razgovory]

I'm also amused by the Orwellian spin of calling it immigration "reform."  Who can possibly be against reform?  Reform is always a good thing.

You mean like "welfare reform"?
Or is that the good kind?

Tort reform.

[Admiral Yi]

You mean like "welfare reform"?
Or is that the good kind?

Just like welfare reform.

[Razgovory]

Oooh, what about Tax Reform?

[The Minsky Moment]

Just like welfare reform.

But I assume you supported welfare reform.
So the use of a word that means "to change the form of" in order to denote a change in policy is not such a terrible thing as to cast aspersions on the underlying merits of the policy, correct?

[derspiess]

Are the illegals even really a concern? 

Not to you, Languish, and others, no.  But it is for a lot of other folks.

[Admiral Yi]

But I assume you supported welfare reform.
So the use of a word that means "to change the form of" in order to denote a change in policy is not such a terrible thing as to cast aspersions on the underlying merits of the policy, correct?

Allow me to clarify dear colleague. 

I have no objections to political supporters of this particular bill trying to cast it in as positive a light as possible. Referring to an amnesty bill as "immigration reform" is well within the pale of allowable spin.

My objection, rather, is to the use of the term by the ostensibly objective press.  When they refer to this particular bill as "immigration reform" they adopt the role of advocate.  Or dupe.

[crazy canuck]

I'm more wary of those Northerners.

The irony of DerSpicy calling for tough immigration laws was apparently lost

[Barrister]

Derspeiss you are a member of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy in good standing, when Republicans say we need more border security how much are we talking about?

Finishing the fence (which by law was supposed to be done last decade) and adding significantly more border security agents is a nice start.  We also need to formulate some metrics to measure progress, as Senator McCain has requested but for some reason our exceedingly feminine DHS secretary refuses to do.

Are illegal border crossings really the source of much of the illegal alien problem these days?

I thought it was more people who legally entered the country, but then over-stayed their visa...

[Barrister]

But I assume you supported welfare reform.
So the use of a word that means "to change the form of" in order to denote a change in policy is not such a terrible thing as to cast aspersions on the underlying merits of the policy, correct?

Allow me to clarify dear colleague. 

I have no objections to political supporters of this particular bill trying to cast it in as positive a light as possible. Referring to an amnesty bill as "immigration reform" is well within the pale of allowable spin.

My objection, rather, is to the use of the term by the ostensibly objective press.  When they refer to this particular bill as "immigration reform" they adopt the role of advocate.  Or dupe.

Isn't fighting over labels politics 101?  It's why the sides in the abortion debate are labelled pro-life and pro-choice, because nobody wants to be anti-anything...

[The Minsky Moment]

Referring to an amnesty bill as "immigration reform" is well within the pale of allowable spin.

I agree it is within the pale.  Particularly if the only alternative is "amnesty bill"

My objection, rather, is to the use of the term by the ostensibly objective press. 

Don't know who this directed at
But . . .
I take it from the tone of your complaints you don't like the bill.
Yet so far your objection has been to the adjective used to describe it and the not-so-shocking claim that some of the politicians voting for the bill might have political motivations.

[Admiral Yi]

Don't know who this directed at

The media.

But . . .
I take it from the tone of your complaints you don't like the bill.
Yet so far your objection has been to the adjective used to describe it and the not-so-shocking claim that some of the politicians voting for the bill might have political motivations.

The fact that "some of the politicians voting for the bill might have political motivations" is a dishonest characterization of my stated position.  I said so far the primary argument advanced so far has been winning the Latino vote.

I thought the path to citizenship in the I Have a Dream Act was too soft.  Doing a stint in the military is legit, but 2 years of college??  How is that a sacrifice?

I've heard nothing about the guest worker program (which in my mind should be the very heart of the bill) since it got tossed over to the AFL-CIO and Chamber of Commerce to work out.

I think without a truly tight border amnesty is just another way of incentivizing illegal immigration.  This is our third now, isn't it?  Wanna bet how long before the next one?

[The Minsky Moment]

The fact that "some of the politicians voting for the bill might have political motivations" is a dishonest characterization of my stated position.  I said so far the primary argument advanced so far has been winning the Latino vote.

My characterization may not be accurate but it is much more justiable that the claim that the primary argument advanced for the bill is winning the Latino vote.
To take one example - I just looked at Marco Rubio's website.  He has all sorts of arguments for the bill: improving border security and interior enforcement, generating jobs, boosting entrepeneurship, dealing with undocumented workers humanely.
Winning Latino votes is not mentioned.
It's odd to refer to something as "the primary argument" when it isn't being argued.

[Admiral Yi]

My characterization may not be accurate but it is much more justiable that the claim that the primary argument advanced for the bill is winning the Latino vote.
To take one example - I just looked at Marco Rubio's website.  He has all sorts of arguments for the bill: improving border security and interior enforcement, generating jobs, boosting entrepeneurship, dealing with undocumented workers humanely.
Winning Latino votes is not mentioned.
It's odd to refer to something as "the primary argument" when it isn't being argued.

Of course it's being argued.  It's impossible to get through an article or TV news story about immigration without mention of connection to Latino votes.

Whereas you're probably the fifth person to look at Marco Rubio's web site.