Arab Spring, Round 2

[Valmy]

In Egypt, there is no problem that can't be solved by a pogrom against Christians.

Distressingly true.  Like when the swine flu freakout was going on the response in Egypt was to confiscate and kill all of the Christians' pigs.  Because, you know, pigs spread swine flu.

[Neil]

Amusing, but as it turns out there is an American politician who follows the Brotherhood policy approach:

I think it's time for us to just hand it over to God and say, "God, You're going to have to fix this."

Aren't you supposed to not mess with Texas?

[Savonarola]

In Egypt, there is no problem that can't be solved by a pogrom against Christians.

I bet the Islamic Brotherhood is regretting Egypt's lack of Jews at this moment. 

In Cairo the Coptic and Jewish quarter are one in the same.  I thought that would have made a nice one-stop-shop for ethnic cleansing (though when I was in Egypt there were only about 50 Jews in the entire country.  It's probably even less now.)

[Savonarola]

It's like "1984," the old leader just can't be out of office, he needs a show trial:

Deposed Egyptian president to be investigated
Prosecutors launch criminal probe against Morsi after complaints of spying, inciting violence and economic collapse.
Last Modified: 13 Jul 2013 20:46


Egypt has announced a criminal investigation against deposed President Mohamed Morsi, with prosecutors saying they were examining complaints of spying, inciting violence and ruining the economy.

The public prosecutor's office issued a statement on Saturday saying it had received complaints against Morsi, eight other named Islamist figures including top Brotherhood leader Mohamed Badie, and others it did not identify.

The prosecutors did not say who had made the complaints.

Egypt's first freely elected leader has been held at an undisclosed location since the army removed him from power on July 3, but has not yet been charged with any crime.


In recent days Washington has called for him to be freed and for the authorities to stop arresting leaders of his Muslim Brotherhood.

The complaints are a first step in the criminal process, allowing prosecutors to begin an investigation that can lead to charges.

Announcing the step was unusual: typically prosecutors wait until charges are filed before making public statements.

Badie and several other Brotherhood officials already face charges for inciting violence that were announced earlier this week, but most of them have not been arrested.

Egyptian law allows them to investigate complaints from police or any member of the public.

More demonstrations

Morsi's Brotherhood called on Saturday for more mass demonstrations after a huge march broke up peacefully before dawn, ending a week in which at least 90 people were killed.

Senior Brotherhood figure Essam El-Erian, one of those who faces arrest, called on his Facebook page for more demonstrations on Monday.

"Egypt decides through the ballot box, through protests, mass marches and peaceful sit-ins," he said.


Follow spotlight coverage of the struggling young democracy
The Brotherhood, which has maintained a vigil near a Cairo mosque since before the army removed Morsi, has said it will not leave the streets until he is restored to power.

The military says it deposed Morsi in a justified response to popular demand after millions of people demonstrated against him.

The Brotherhood says it was a coup that reversed democracy.

Turmoil in the most populous Arab state has concerned the West, as Egypt sits astride the Suez Canal and has a strategically important peace treaty with Israel.

The United States has refused to say whether it considered the army takeover a "coup", which under US law would require it to cut off aid including $1.3bn a year in military support.

Egypt's economy has been struggling since a popular uprising toppled President Hosni Mubarak in 2011, and the turmoil since then has driven away investors, draining hard currency reserves and making it difficult to import food and fuel.

The army has appointed a judge as interim president and a liberal economist, Hazem el-Beblawi was named as prime minister, who is trying to cobble together a cabinet likely to be made up mainly of technocrats and liberals.

The spying one amused me, it was the Mossad all along

[DGuller]

When is the execution date?

[Admiral Yi]

Hope the spying charge doesn't detract from the seriousness of the economic collapse charge.

[Tamas]

When is the execution date?

Made me remember that scene from a Hungarian classic, a movie made (and banned) in the 80s, a satire about the early 50s. As the protagonist was waiting to testify in a show trial, the politican who "trained" him insist on reading through his testimony one more time, a few minutes before he enters the courtroom, handing him the text.  Protagonist checks the papers and says "I am sorry Comrade, but this is the verdict"

[Sheilbh]

In Egypt, there is no problem that can't be solved by a pogrom against Christians.

It's a huge problem in Egypt, I feel very sorry for the Copts and other Middle Eastern Christian communities. Really sad to see such an ancient and beautiful faith under attack

But I think it's part of wider and growing sectarian conflicts in the Middle East. Probably since the Iraq war the defining feature of all politics increasingly seems to be sectarianism. In Bahrain, in Egypt, in Syria and increasingly within Sunni communities as Saudi money and ideology starts to attack traditional local practice in relatively homogeneous Tunisia and Libya.

Looking at those countries (and Yemen, Pakistan, Saudi and a few others) and it's tough to see how you pull out of sectarian violence like we've seen. It took Europe the Eighty Years War, Thirty Years War, English Civil War, Edict of Nantes and sundry other conflicts I've forgotten or never knew about to end up at some sort of settlement based on coexistence.

[Admiral Yi]

According to the Economist, Egypt spends 8% of GDP on energy subsidies. 

[Malthus]

According to the Economist, Egypt spends 8% of GDP on energy subsidies. 

Egypt also subsidizes food, though I'm not sure how much.

Remove the subsidies, and people allegedly start to starve to death (and riot before they starve).

Egypt of course cannot afford the subsidies.

[Malthus]

In Egypt, there is no problem that can't be solved by a pogrom against Christians.

I bet the Islamic Brotherhood is regretting Egypt's lack of Jews at this moment. 

In Cairo the Coptic and Jewish quarter are one in the same.  I thought that would have made a nice one-stop-shop for ethnic cleansing (though when I was in Egypt there were only about 50 Jews in the entire country.  It's probably even less now.)

My favorite Jews-left-behind story is Afganistan. As of the last decade, there were exactly two Jews left in Afganistan. As the last survivors of an ancient community, they had jointly inherited an extremely valuable medieval Torah scroll ...

... which they were busy fighting tooth and nail over. 

[DGuller]

According to the Economist, Egypt spends 8% of GDP on energy subsidies. 

Egypt also subsidizes food, though I'm not sure how much.

Remove the subsidies, and people allegedly start to starve to death (and riot before they starve).

Egypt of course cannot afford the subsidies.

Seems like uncontrolled population growth nailed the Arabs before it nailed the Jews.

[alfred russel]

Remove the subsidies, and people allegedly start to starve to death (and riot before they starve).

They are prone to rioting anyway, and I suspect these would die down in a few weeks.

[DGuller]

Remove the subsidies, and people allegedly start to starve to death (and riot before they starve).

They are prone to rioting anyway, and I suspect these would die down in a few weeks.

[Savonarola]

Egypt also subsidizes food, though I'm not sure how much.

Remove the subsidies, and people allegedly start to starve to death (and riot before they starve).

Egypt of course cannot afford the subsidies.

I traveled upper Egypt from Abu Simbel to Cairo by bus and by train.  I was struck that outside the window facing the Nile there was a thin strip of a garden filled with an incredible bounty.  On the other side there was nothing but sand stretching out for as far as the eye could see.  Seeing how vast (and how poor) Cairo was it's no wonder the country has the problems it does; especially now that tourism is so far down.