NBA Thread

[derspiess]

His style is nothing like Jordan's,  he's better compared to Magic.

Then don't compare him to Jordan.

Boom.

[sbr]

The highest percentage of team points isn't a meaningful stat until you put it into context.  If he is missing a lot of shots and not effectively distributing the ball another name for that is ballhog.

At the risk of defending Timmay, his shot percentage was in line with the rest of his team's during the finals. In 3 games it was higher, in 3 games it was lower. He had more assists than any player for either team.

The performance of the Cavs when he wasn't on the floor was awful.

If your teammates are shooting at a low percentage, you should start taking marginal shots.

The reason the rest of Cleveland shot a low percentage is because it is an offence build around Lebron.  The rest of the team got very few easy shots because the offence wasn't set up to do that.  Compare that with an offence like GS which is designed to get open shots for a number of players.  So if an offence is built around the concept of getting a good shot for one guy that one guy better score the bulk of the points with a good percentage (which is why the total percentage of points is meaningless in this context) and since he has the ball in his hands so much one would hope that he is able to pass out to an open player for an assist more than anyone else.

I disagree with your last point.  It is that mentality that is the reason Lebron has only won 2 out of six trips to the finals.  When Jordan started to share the ball he started winning - 6 for 6.

So if the Cavaliers ran their offense similar to the way GS does, suddenly Tristan Thomas, Iman Shumpert and Delladova improve enough to become, what?  Average NBA offensive players?  Does it help transform JR Smith from a lazy, idiotic streaky shooter into someone you can rely on?

It doesn't matter what sets you run, if JR Smith is your second most talented offensive player you will never win anything. 

The reason 2 of LeBron's NBA Finals teams lost is because they were vastly inferior to the team they played and LeBron dragged them into the finals, almost despite themselves.  Or are you one of those who was saying that the 2007 Cavaliers' roster and coaches were comparable to the '90s Bulls teams and LeBron was crazy to leave that?

[Valmy]

The reason shitty teams with Lebron get to the Finals is because they are in the current Eastern Conference. It did not take that much dragging. The other teams just suck ass.

[sbr]

I would not call the Golden State Warriors a great team yet, but they has one of the greatest seasons in NBA history.  They were given everything they could handle, and could (maybe should) have been down 0-3 after the first three games of the Finals by a team that had Timofey Mozgov, JR Smith, Tristan Thompson, Iman Shupert and Matt Dellavedova as 5 of the 6 contributing players.

[crazy canuck]

The highest percentage of team points isn't a meaningful stat until you put it into context.  If he is missing a lot of shots and not effectively distributing the ball another name for that is ballhog.

At the risk of defending Timmay, his shot percentage was in line with the rest of his team's during the finals. In 3 games it was higher, in 3 games it was lower. He had more assists than any player for either team.

The performance of the Cavs when he wasn't on the floor was awful.

If your teammates are shooting at a low percentage, you should start taking marginal shots.

The reason the rest of Cleveland shot a low percentage is because it is an offence build around Lebron.  The rest of the team got very few easy shots because the offence wasn't set up to do that.  Compare that with an offence like GS which is designed to get open shots for a number of players.  So if an offence is built around the concept of getting a good shot for one guy that one guy better score the bulk of the points with a good percentage (which is why the total percentage of points is meaningless in this context) and since he has the ball in his hands so much one would hope that he is able to pass out to an open player for an assist more than anyone else.

I disagree with your last point.  It is that mentality that is the reason Lebron has only won 2 out of six trips to the finals.  When Jordan started to share the ball he started winning - 6 for 6.

So if the Cavaliers ran their offense similar to the way GS does, suddenly Tristan Thomas, Iman Shumpert and Delladova improve enough to become, what?  Average NBA offensive players?  Does it help transform JR Smith from a lazy, idiotic streaky shooter into someone you can rely on?

It doesn't matter what sets you run, if JR Smith is your second most talented offensive player you will never win anything. 

The reason 2 of LeBron's NBA Finals teams lost is because they were vastly inferior to the team they played and LeBron dragged them into the finals, almost despite themselves.  Or are you one of those who was saying that the 2007 Cavaliers' roster and coaches were comparable to the '90s Bulls teams and LeBron was crazy to leave that?

You are missing the point.  The Cleveland offence is built to get Lebron as many touches and shots as possible.  Therefore it is no surprising that he scores a high percentage of the team's points.  It is not surprising that he gets more assists than others.  Touching the ball every time down the court tends to do that even for someone who shoots (and misses) as much as Lebron did in this series.

The Heat teams were "vastly inferior"   

[sbr]

The highest percentage of team points isn't a meaningful stat until you put it into context.  If he is missing a lot of shots and not effectively distributing the ball another name for that is ballhog.

At the risk of defending Timmay, his shot percentage was in line with the rest of his team's during the finals. In 3 games it was higher, in 3 games it was lower. He had more assists than any player for either team.

The performance of the Cavs when he wasn't on the floor was awful.

If your teammates are shooting at a low percentage, you should start taking marginal shots.

The reason the rest of Cleveland shot a low percentage is because it is an offence build around Lebron.  The rest of the team got very few easy shots because the offence wasn't set up to do that.  Compare that with an offence like GS which is designed to get open shots for a number of players.  So if an offence is built around the concept of getting a good shot for one guy that one guy better score the bulk of the points with a good percentage (which is why the total percentage of points is meaningless in this context) and since he has the ball in his hands so much one would hope that he is able to pass out to an open player for an assist more than anyone else.

I disagree with your last point.  It is that mentality that is the reason Lebron has only won 2 out of six trips to the finals.  When Jordan started to share the ball he started winning - 6 for 6.

So if the Cavaliers ran their offense similar to the way GS does, suddenly Tristan Thomas, Iman Shumpert and Delladova improve enough to become, what?  Average NBA offensive players?  Does it help transform JR Smith from a lazy, idiotic streaky shooter into someone you can rely on?

It doesn't matter what sets you run, if JR Smith is your second most talented offensive player you will never win anything. 

The reason 2 of LeBron's NBA Finals teams lost is because they were vastly inferior to the team they played and LeBron dragged them into the finals, almost despite themselves.  Or are you one of those who was saying that the 2007 Cavaliers' roster and coaches were comparable to the '90s Bulls teams and LeBron was crazy to leave that?

You are missing the point.  The Cleveland offence is built to get Lebron as many touches and shots as possible.  Therefore it is no surprising that he scores a high percentage of the team's points.  It is not surprising that he gets more assists than others.  Touching the ball every time down the court tends to do that even for someone who shoots (and misses) as much as Lebron did in this series.

The Heat teams were "vastly inferior" 

The reason the rest of Cleveland shot a low percentage is because with the injuries it is a roster full of medicare (at best) players.  I don't care what plays you run or how the offense is designed those guys are sub-par shooters and scorers.  Could you do something else and get a better result?  Maybe but I doubt it would be enough to beat the Warriors.

Maybe I worded it poorly, but the inferior teams were the 2 Cavs teams.  The Heat team that lost to Dallas was probably a better team, the Heat team that lost to the Spurs was close but San Antonio was the better team.  The Spurs team that lost to Miami was probably the better team as well.

[crazy canuck]

What does the rest of the team have to do with Lebron shooting such a poor percentage.  Are you suggesting that in past finals Jordan wasn't closely guarded?

[Eddie Teach]

What does the rest of the team have to do with Lebron shooting such a poor percentage.  Are you suggesting that in past finals Jordan wasn't closely guarded?

He was usually double teamed. That's why Paxton, Armstrong, Kerr, etc. had such good 3 point fg%.

[sbr]

What does the rest of the team have to do with Lebron shooting such a poor percentage.  Are you suggesting that in past finals Jordan wasn't closely guarded?

I thought the fact that I kept quoting the passage would make it clear, but here it is again.

The reason the rest of Cleveland shot a low percentage is because it is an offence build around Lebron.  The rest of the team got very few easy shots because the offence wasn't set up to do that.  Compare that with an offence like GS which is designed to get open shots for a number of players. So if an offence is built around the concept of getting a good shot for one guy that one guy better score the bulk of the points with a good percentage (which is why the total percentage of points is meaningless in this context) and since he has the ball in his hands so much one would hope that he is able to pass out to an open player for an assist more than anyone else.

I disagree with your last point.  It is that mentality that is the reason Lebron has only won 2 out of six trips to the finals.  When Jordan started to share the ball he started winning - 6 for 6.

[jimmy olsen]

The highest percentage of team points isn't a meaningful stat until you put it into context.  If he is missing a lot of shots and not effectively distributing the ball another name for that is ballhog.

At the risk of defending Timmay, his shot percentage was in line with the rest of his team's during the finals. In 3 games it was higher, in 3 games it was lower. He had more assists than any player for either team.

The performance of the Cavs when he wasn't on the floor was awful.

If your teammates are shooting at a low percentage, you should start taking marginal shots.

The reason the rest of Cleveland shot a low percentage is because it is an offence build around Lebron.  The rest of the team got very few easy shots because the offence wasn't set up to do that.  Compare that with an offence like GS which is designed to get open shots for a number of players.  So if an offence is built around the concept of getting a good shot for one guy that one guy better score the bulk of the points with a good percentage (which is why the total percentage of points is meaningless in this context) and since he has the ball in his hands so much one would hope that he is able to pass out to an open player for an assist more than anyone else.

I disagree with your last point.  It is that mentality that is the reason Lebron has only won 2 out of six trips to the finals.  When Jordan started to share the ball he started winning - 6 for 6.

This analysis is fucking lunancy. The offence was built around him in this series because the other two allstars went down with injuries. He has averaged 7.1 assists per game for his career and from the beginning he has been relentlesly criticized for sharing too much and not taking the game into his own hands.

[crazy canuck]

What does the rest of the team have to do with Lebron shooting such a poor percentage.  Are you suggesting that in past finals Jordan wasn't closely guarded?

He was usually double teamed. That's why Paxton, Armstrong, Kerr, etc. had such good 3 point fg%.

And Jordan shot a much better percentage then Lebron even though Jordan was always double teamed.  So again, I don't think the apologist stance for Lebron shooting a low percentage holds.

@ Timmay, could Lebron have played better is the question you asked.  Yes, he could have played as well as Jordan did.   But you made sure that wasn't going to happen

[crazy canuck]

I thought the fact that I kept quoting the passage would make it clear, but here it is again.

That is an explanation for why Cleveland shot a low percentage.  Not why Lebron shot a poor percentage.  Also, consider that Jordan shot a much better percentage in an era when defenders were permitted much more contact. 

[sbr]

I'm one of the few NOT comparing lebron to Jordan.

You said the Cavs crappy players played crappy because they ran the wrong offense. I say they played crappy because they are crappy

[Valmy]

I just cannot believe that Tristan Thompson was ever a factor in a NBA finals. I mean Hook'em Horns and all that but wow.

[The Larch]

LOL, any of you guys followed the DeAndre Jordan fiasco these days?