Why has Israel never appeared in the Civ franchise?

[Syt]

Why?
I remember back in Civ 3 there were plans to realease a israeli civ, but it never happened.
And it aint gonna happen with Civ5 Brave new world.

The Steam Workshop has several versions of an Israel Civ you can mod into the game.

[The Brain]

The ancient kingdom of Israel was pretty insignificant in terms of history of civilization.   Why include them and not Damascus, Philistia, Edom, Moab, etc (just limiting to Iron Age kingdoms of the immediate region)?  The only reason why people outside of a few archaeologist specialists know anything about Israel is that about 100 years after Israel was utterly destroyed, some literary works came out of its former sister kingdom of Judah that turned out to have a curious-- and at the time entirely unexpected -- influence on history.

That's the point though - it's had enough of an influence because of that to warrant inclusion in the game IMO.  The history of the ancient Israelites played a fairly big role in the development of western culture and civilization.  Anyway, I've always been surprised they haven't been included, but YMMV.

YHWH

[Razgovory]

The ancient kingdom of Israel was pretty insignificant in terms of history of civilization.   Why include them and not Damascus, Philistia, Edom, Moab, etc (just limiting to Iron Age kingdoms of the immediate region)?  The only reason why people outside of a few archaeologist specialists know anything about Israel is that about 100 years after Israel was utterly destroyed, some literary works came out of its former sister kingdom of Judah that turned out to have a curious-- and at the time entirely unexpected -- influence on history.

Odd isn't it. 

And people from all over the place and different backgrounds have obsessed about the place ever since.   

They had a really good literary agent.

[11B4V]

The ancient kingdom of Israel was pretty insignificant in terms of history of civilization.   Why include them and not Damascus, Philistia, Edom, Moab, etc (just limiting to Iron Age kingdoms of the immediate region)?  The only reason why people outside of a few archaeologist specialists know anything about Israel is that about 100 years after Israel was utterly destroyed, some literary works came out of its former sister kingdom of Judah that turned out to have a curious-- and at the time entirely unexpected -- influence on history.

What's next  mein Fuhrer?

[Solmyr]

I actually think, now that emphasis has shifted away from having to have a gigantic empire, the Jews make sense as a Civ to include in the game.

OTOH, from a marketing standpoint including them as a playable Civ makes no sense if they want to be able to sell their product in the Middle East.

Is there actually a big market for Civ games in the Middle East?

[Razgovory]

Anyone know what the current thinking is on "the world's oldest city?"

I've read that the oldest continually inhabited place is Antioch, but that's not the same thing.

Damascus claims that title.

Depends on what you mean by city.  Some of the oldest settlements known do not seem to have civic buildings, rather they are mostly/all domestic with perhaps a few ritual sites.  Also, agriculture at the earliest sites was different.  Some of the Syrian sites show crop harvesting but not planting at the earliest times.

Still, some of the southern Turkish or northern Syrian sites are probably the best bet for the title.

Yeah, there probably some hill with a couple of huts on on top of the ruins of some other huts that go back eight thousand years and nobody knows about it.   Those early settlements that existed without public buildings or even agriculture in the same sense we are used to are fascinating.

[Duque de Bragança]

Yeah, Jerusalem, Jaffa and Acre are all really old, but they're not really 'Israeli cities', you know?

In what sense?  I think you are saying none of those cities were actually founded by Israel but it is not like Paris was founded by Frenchmen.

In the sense that those cities weren't really inhabited mainly by Israelites and Israelis for most of their history.  They were conquered, subjugated and eventually depopulated.  Sure, Paris was founded by the Romans, but it was populated by the French for a huge portion of its history.  Even when Paris was conquered, the people living there were still French.  That isn't the case with the cities in Palestine, where the founders are extinct and they've traded hands many, many times and been ethnically cleansed more than once, even within living memory.

Paris was actually founded as a Celtic oppidum (Paris is a celtic name). Even the Roman city Lutetia which might have shared the same location was not important in the Roman era since Lugdunum was the Roman capital of Gaul.
Paris, as a major city, started with the Franks choosing it for capital in 508. The main settlement of Frank in France was L'Île-de-France (Liddle Franke), the Paris region.

[mongers]

The ancient kingdom of Israel was pretty insignificant in terms of history of civilization.   Why include them and not Damascus, Philistia, Edom, Moab, etc (just limiting to Iron Age kingdoms of the immediate region)?  The only reason why people outside of a few archaeologist specialists know anything about Israel is that about 100 years after Israel was utterly destroyed, some literary works came out of its former sister kingdom of Judah that turned out to have a curious-- and at the time entirely unexpected -- influence on history.

Odd isn't it. 

And people from all over the place and different backgrounds have obsessed about the place ever since.   

They had a really good literary agent.

[Caliga]

I actually think, now that emphasis has shifted away from having to have a gigantic empire, the Jews make sense as a Civ to include in the game.

OTOH, from a marketing standpoint including them as a playable Civ makes no sense if they want to be able to sell their product in the Middle East.

Is there actually a big market for Civ games in the Middle East?

Probably not, but think about it.... if they continue to not feature Israel in the game, any Arabs that buy Civ will continue to buy it and so will Jews since they're not totally insane and easily offended by anything and everything.  If they add Israel, Jews will continue to play it, but Arabs will boycott it (and possibly put out a fatwa on Sid Meier), so it seems like a poor business decision to me.

[Eddie Teach]

I suspect Mideastern sales are small enough that the real question to ask is whether the inclusion of Israel(preferably ancient) makes the game more compelling for western customers.

[Neil]

Yeah, Jerusalem, Jaffa and Acre are all really old, but they're not really 'Israeli cities', you know?

In what sense?  I think you are saying none of those cities were actually founded by Israel but it is not like Paris was founded by Frenchmen.

In the sense that those cities weren't really inhabited mainly by Israelites and Israelis for most of their history.  They were conquered, subjugated and eventually depopulated.  Sure, Paris was founded by the Romans, but it was populated by the French for a huge portion of its history.  Even when Paris was conquered, the people living there were still French.  That isn't the case with the cities in Palestine, where the founders are extinct and they've traded hands many, many times and been ethnically cleansed more than once, even within living memory.

Paris was actually founded as a Celtic oppidum (Paris is a celtic name). Even the Roman city Lutetia which might have shared the same location was not important in the Roman era since Lugdunum was the Roman capital of Gaul.
Paris, as a major city, started with the Franks choosing it for capital in 508. The main settlement of Frank in France was L'Île-de-France (Liddle Franke), the Paris region.

I don't count barbarian camps.

[The Minsky Moment]

That's the point though - it's had enough of an influence because of that to warrant inclusion in the game IMO.   

Not really.  The Israelites themselves really had no influence.  As for late Judah, they had no influence concerning most of the things covered in the Civ series: tech development, road building, diplomacy, warfare, etc.

The OT of course had huge influence but not really because of anything that particular civilization did.  At the time of its collapse, no one knew of it aside from the exiles.

The history of the ancient Israelites played a fairly big role in the development of western culture and civilization.

No - the history of the ancient Israelites was to a great extent unknown to western civilization because the OT is far from an accurate account of that history.

[CountDeMoney]

I don't count barbarian camps.

Then I suppose the Oakland Raiders are out.

[PDH]

I don't count barbarian camps.

Then I suppose the Oakland Raiders are out.

They show few signs of agriculture and very little in the way of civic organization.

[Duque de Bragança]

Yeah, Jerusalem, Jaffa and Acre are all really old, but they're not really 'Israeli cities', you know?

In what sense?  I think you are saying none of those cities were actually founded by Israel but it is not like Paris was founded by Frenchmen.

In the sense that those cities weren't really inhabited mainly by Israelites and Israelis for most of their history.  They were conquered, subjugated and eventually depopulated.  Sure, Paris was founded by the Romans, but it was populated by the French for a huge portion of its history.  Even when Paris was conquered, the people living there were still French.  That isn't the case with the cities in Palestine, where the founders are extinct and they've traded hands many, many times and been ethnically cleansed more than once, even within living memory.

Paris was actually founded as a Celtic oppidum (Paris is a celtic name). Even the Roman city Lutetia which might have shared the same location was not important in the Roman era since Lugdunum was the Roman capital of Gaul.
Paris, as a major city, started with the Franks choosing it for capital in 508. The main settlement of Frank in France was L'Île-de-France (Liddle Franke), the Paris region.

I don't count barbarian camps.

Then no Franks, no archaic Rome, no Israel of course and no Albertan contemporary "cities"