DoJ to Snowden: Hope your 15 minutes were worth it, pal

[Tamas]

Funny (and sad) to see how utterly successful it has been to steer public discussion away from the hideous facts he published to his person.

[Agelastus]

I think that Snowden was well intentioned, and maybe also hoping to be a hero of the people for uncovering all the data collection schemes. How he went on releasing that information, though ...

I'm a bit surprised at the lack of outrage about the data collection itself, both in the U.S. and the UK. I guess a lot of people are indifferent because the internet and electronic communications don't feel "real", unlike a bug in your phone, a camera in front of your house or someone opening your letters.

Several decades of terrorist bombs tends to desensitise you to certain things.

What a load of crap. The UK and the US are not the only places to have experienced terrorism.

You guys are just hysterical. Osama won the WoT.

Fuck you arsehole; I said nothing about the USA, only the UK where I was born, raised and still live. 40 years of on/off terrorist campaigns followed by a thirty year continuous one by the IRA certainly affected how this country feels about terrorist bombings. For one thing, we certainly don't become "hysterical" about them; it's just business as usual. For another thing we don't raise as much of a fuss about the things people do to protect us from them as some of our continental neighbours seem to expect.

I haven't been down south for a few years, so perhaps someone who has can tell me; have the litter bins ever reappeared at train stations or in the West End?

[garbon]

Funny (and sad) to see how utterly successful it has been to steer public discussion away from the hideous facts he published to his person.

When you act like a media whore, surprise!

[Admiral Yi]

I'm a bit surprised at the lack of outrage about the data collection itself, both in the U.S. and the UK. I guess a lot of people are indifferent because the internet and electronic communications don't feel "real", unlike a bug in your phone, a camera in front of your house or someone opening your letters.

I haven't decided yet what I think about the programs, but I do find it telling that all the people expressing outrage about it seem to be mischaracterizing the actual workings.

[Tamas]

I'm a bit surprised at the lack of outrage about the data collection itself, both in the U.S. and the UK. I guess a lot of people are indifferent because the internet and electronic communications don't feel "real", unlike a bug in your phone, a camera in front of your house or someone opening your letters.

I haven't decided yet what I think about the programs, but I do find it telling that all the people expressing outrage about it seem to be mischaracterizing the actual workings.

In what way?

[Admiral Yi]

In what way?

In the way Syt just did: comparing it to tapping a phone or opening mail.

[Iormlund]

Fuck you arsehole; I said nothing about the USA, only the UK where I was born, raised and still live. 40 years of on/off terrorist campaigns followed by a thirty year continuous one by the IRA certainly affected how this country feels about terrorist bombings. For one thing, we certainly don't become "hysterical" about them; it's just business as usual. For another thing we don't raise as much of a fuss about the things people do to protect us from them as some of our continental neighbours seem to expect.

I haven't been down south for a few years, so perhaps someone who has can tell me; have the litter bins ever reappeared at train stations or in the West End?

I was raised when ETA killed a hundred people a year. I was still a kid when I saw 13-yo Irene Villa clutching at what remained of her legs, on live TV. They blew up a bus were I had been standing just a few hours past. I went past the Mozart Plaza site 4 times a day for years (one of my best friends lived just opposite and won't forget the night the building was blasted to rubble). And before that I walked every day past the guards at the air force quarters, always alert and armed with submachine guns. Every time a cell was operating in town I was among the first to know: the girl next to me was the daughter of a colonel and when he'd been warned of activity she would jump off her chair every time she heard a siren going by.

So yeah. We've been through this before, too. And guess what: if you look at the figures, terrorism pales in comparison to deaths in traffic accidents every year. Or workplace accidents. And lets not mention illness.

But none of those receive anywhere near as much attention or funding. Because at the end of the day, fear is useful.

[Tamas]

In what way?

In the way Syt just did: comparing it to tapping a phone or opening mail.

elaborate how it is different.

[Admiral Yi]

elaborate how it is different.

It's not tapping the phone of every person in the US.  It's looking to see if someone makes a bunch of calls to Taliban Central HR in North Waziristan then getting a warrant to tap their phone based on that.

[Tamas]

elaborate how it is different.

It's not tapping the phone of every person in the US.  It's looking to see if someone makes a bunch of calls to Taliban Central HR in North Waziristan then getting a warrant to tap their phone based on that.

The phone part, yes. You are, however, conveniently ignoring the part where they have billions upon billions of MONTHLY log entries of net traffic from and through the States.

[Admiral Yi]

The phone part, yes. You are, however, conveniently ignoring the part where they have billions upon billions of MONTHLY log entries of net traffic from and through the States.

I haven't read or heard much about that.  How does it work?

[Tamas]

The phone part, yes. You are, however, conveniently ignoring the part where they have billions upon billions of MONTHLY log entries of net traffic from and through the States.

I haven't read or heard much about that.  How does it work?

Details and screenshots here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/08/nsa-boundless-informant-global-datamining

he Boundless Informant documents show the agency collecting almost 3 billion pieces of intelligence from US computer networks over a 30-day period ending in March 2013

A snapshot of the Boundless Informant data, contained in a top secret NSA "global heat map" seen by the Guardian, shows that in March 2013 the agency collected 97bn pieces of intelligence from computer networks worldwide

97 billion log entries for a single month. And since these are in a tool which is searchable and keeps statistics of these, it means they are archiving these. As I said earlier, your life, in its online entirety, is there, and will be there.

[Iormlund]

Say someone you don't approve of is considering to run for the Senate. Then all you have to do is watch the tapes and all his life is at your fingertips.  If you don't find anything, do the same with his family. His friends.

It's beautiful, you don't have to break into hotels any more. It'll all be right there, waiting for someone to push a button.

[Agelastus]

I was raised when ETA killed a hundred people a year.

Now who's being hysterical; a quick bit of research on the internet shows ETA have never killed that many people in a year and only once approached it. I can quote 11 years when the principal players of "The Troubles" (IRA, INLA, UDA etc.) managed that.

Rather a pointless exercise though. One death's one too many.

I was still a kid when I saw 13-yo Irene Villa clutching at what remained of her legs, on live TV.

Well, I must admit I can't match that; we tended to be a bit less sensationalist in those days in our TV coverage.

They blew up a bus were I had been standing just a few hours past.

Same here. The IRA blew up a bus I regularly used, albeit probably not intentionally.

I went past the Mozart Plaza site 4 times a day for years (one of my best friends lived just opposite and won't forget the night the building was blasted to rubble). And before that I walked every day past the guards at the air force quarters, always alert and armed with submachine guns. Every time a cell was operating in town I was among the first to know: the girl next to me was the daughter of a colonel and when he'd been warned of activity she would jump off her chair every time she heard a siren going by.

OK I can't match that directly; I do know people who've had that sort of experience from Northern Ireland, however.

So yeah. We've been through this before, too. And guess what: if you look at the figures, terrorism pales in comparison to deaths in traffic accidents every year. Or workplace accidents. And lets not mention illness.

But none of those receive anywhere near as much attention or funding. Because at the end of the day, fear is useful.

You had me going a bit until you mentioned "illness".  Collectively, those things you mentioned get billions more spent on them that the "Fight against Terrorism" does. You took hyperbole a little too far there.

Still, I probably shouldn't have called you an "arsehole". I apologise.

[The Brain]

Fuck you arsehole; I said nothing about the USA, only the UK where I was born, raised and still live. 40 years of on/off terrorist campaigns followed by a thirty year continuous one by the IRA certainly affected how this country feels about terrorist bombings. For one thing, we certainly don't become "hysterical" about them; it's just business as usual. For another thing we don't raise as much of a fuss about the things people do to protect us from them as some of our continental neighbours seem to expect.

I haven't been down south for a few years, so perhaps someone who has can tell me; have the litter bins ever reappeared at train stations or in the West End?

I was raised when ETA killed a hundred people a year. I was still a kid when I saw 13-yo Irene Villa clutching at what remained of her legs, on live TV. They blew up a bus were I had been standing just a few hours past. I went past the Mozart Plaza site 4 times a day for years (one of my best friends lived just opposite and won't forget the night the building was blasted to rubble). And before that I walked every day past the guards at the air force quarters, always alert and armed with submachine guns. Every time a cell was operating in town I was among the first to know: the girl next to me was the daughter of a colonel and when he'd been warned of activity she would jump off her chair every time she heard a siren going by.

So yeah. We've been through this before, too. And guess what: if you look at the figures, terrorism pales in comparison to deaths in traffic accidents every year. Or workplace accidents. And lets not mention illness.

But none of those receive anywhere near as much attention or funding. Because at the end of the day, fear is useful.

But were you poor?