Was Malthus ever poor?

[Malthus]

After the jobs I had done through highschool and this, whenever I heard people complain about how hard law school was I just had to laugh.  Kind of like when I hear how hard Malthus thinks he had it.

Please point out where I was complaining about having it hard.

Oh, you can't? You just made that shit up? Deary me.

Claiming that one was poor when they were not is making shit up.  Or at the very least a sign that one suffers from a misunderstand of what it is to be poor beyond some statistical analysis made, as Yi correctly points out, on the basis of questionable assumptions.

If you still dont get the point I am not sure what else I can say.

Dude.

Look back at the thread which started you off. If was *you* who characterized *me* as going from being poor to well-off.

I then *corrected you* to point out that I had advantages you did not - namely, my dad was a prof and my tuition was free.

You then proceeded to freak out at me, for no good reason I can see, claiming that I had never experienced being "really" poor. I never for a moment claimed that my situation was the same as yours (indeed, as I said, it was me correcting you on that very point that started off your tirade) . I never, for a second, complained that I personally had it hard at all! In fact, I didn't; it wasn't hardship that made me want to go back to school etc., it was fear of the future - that living this way is OK in your 20s but would highly suck in one's 40s.

The only way I can explain your strange anger and vindictiveness in your posts is that you are inventing a wholly fictional scenario in your mind whereby I am, I dunno, denying you status of self-made man or something. It's not a status I am claiming. I know very well that I owe a lot to the fact my family is educated etc. 

I am simply saying that my income sucked and my living arrangements sucked when I graduated without a useful degree - e.g., because I happened to be poor at the time.  Why this is at all "controversial" beggars belief. It is a situation literally millions of folks find themselves in after graduation. 

[Admiral Yi]

Does a university department chair make enough in Canada for his offspring to be considered "rich kids?"

[garbon]

He's right though that you picked an odd tack when you mentioned that he was complaining about how hard he had it. I don't recall Malthus ever doing that.

CC's point seems to be that Malthus never earned the right to use the word poor.

Yeah and I get that. However, it is a mistake then to say that Malthus was crying about how hard he had it.

[Barrister]

I don't get why you are all fighting about a label.  Malthus said he was "poor", but then gave a detailed explanation of his circumstances (which no one is questioning).  He acknowledged that his situation, of poverty for a year after graduation, was quite different than someone who "grew up poor".

Alternatively, I'm not quite sure why "growing up poor" is some huge badge of honour that needs to be protected against.  Does "growing up poor" make you a better, more moral, person?

My story is much more like Malthus' than it is CCs.  I am the son of a newspaper reporter and a teacher.  My parents didn't pay my tuition, but they did give me free room and board living at home while I went to school.  My father also lined me up with a job at the newspaper that helped pay my expenses.  Both of those are obviously huge advantages someone who grew up in real poverty would never have.

I didn't take a year off - but I did take a co-op degree which added a year to my education.  My first job was interesting enough - I worked for a nuclear research company.  But of course everyone I worked with had PhDs - it was not going to be much of a career path for me.

My other, and longer, job was with a mining/smelting company.  I counted rocks.  Honestly.  I would prepare samples of ore concentrate then count the mineral grains under a microscope to determine their composition.  It was tedious in the extreme.  It was also fairly low paid, though not poverty.  And it had no opportunity to advance.  It was this job that convinced me to sign up for the LSAT.

So, I was never poor (though I do remember one time with the mining company miscalculating some bills, and realizing I had no money and no food, with a payday not coming for a week.  Thankfully I borrowed $20 from a co-worker so I could afford KD to last me to the next payday).   But so what?  I still learned the value of hard work, and that I wanted a better income and opportunity for myself.

[crazy canuck]

I am simply saying that my income sucked and my living arrangements sucked when I graduated without a useful degree - e.g., because I happened to be poor at the time.  Why this is at all "controversial" beggars belief. It is a situation literally millions of folks find themselves in after graduation. 

What beggars belief is that after all the posts after I pointed out to you that you circumstances hardly qualified as being poor, you still want to hang on to that label with such vigor.

As I said, if you cant tell the difference between what you went through and what being poor really means then enough said.

[garbon]

Does "growing up poor" make you a better, more moral, person?

According to MiM, yes.

[Malthus]

More or less.  This all started when Malthus claimed to have been poor in the other thread.  I pointed out that the advantages of his birth meant the opposite.  Indeed if Malthus was poor we certainly have a challenge figuring out a meaningful definition for the word.

Wrong. You claimed I was poor. I then pointed out that we were not poor in the same way, that I had advantages you did not have.

Go back and read the thread.

Posted by CC:

Except that both Malthus and I have gone from being poor to being fairly well off.

Posted by Malthus:

Indeed, I did one better than most people - my undergraduate education was entirely free to me, thanks to a very useful perk my dad got by being a prof at the same university I went to. 

Posted by CC:

Btw having a university prof as a dad means you were not poor.

Poted by Malthus:

Evidently you do not know my dad. 

But yeah, I certainly came from a family with advantages - everyone in it was highly educated. That did not stop me, personally, from lacking any money as a young dude, particularly when attempting to live on the wages of a potter's assistant.   

In light of this exchange, I think your position is, franctly, delusional. Look who it is saying from the very beginning that I have advantages, etc.

[crazy canuck]

If you go back further in the thread you will see that I called you poor because you had claimed the same just before my post.  I had a bit of a brain cramp on that one because I had forgotten the family you were raised in.  You then set me straight and said you had a father who was a professor to which I said then you were not poor and for some reason unkown to me you seem to want to cling to the view that you had in fact been poor for an ever so brief span of your life.

If you want delusional you might look in the mirror.

Tell me this.  What is it about the being poor narrative that is so important for you Malthus?

[Caliga]

Malthus, give it up dude.  Once the people of Languish decide something about you, that's it.  THE PEOPLE HAVE SPOKEN.  That's why I work in HR and eat out of dumpsters to these people, and will forever do so.

[Malthus]

I am simply saying that my income sucked and my living arrangements sucked when I graduated without a useful degree - e.g., because I happened to be poor at the time.  Why this is at all "controversial" beggars belief. It is a situation literally millions of folks find themselves in after graduation. 

What beggars belief is that after all the posts after I pointed out to you that you circumstances hardly qualified as being poor, you still want to hang on to that label with such vigor.

As I said, if you cant tell the difference between what you went through and what being poor really means then enough said.

I am arguing because you guys are arguing with me. I've explained exactly what I meant. I earned less than the poverty line and so, by the actual definition of the term used in Canada, I was "poor". I was not from a poor family so I was not "poor" in that sense. I've said from the very beginning that I can see the difference, that I had advantages you did not, but it is like you simply can't read it, or don't believe it.  See my post above in which I document the exchange.

Really, the only reason I care to argue is that, according to you, I was being "misleading" and "crying" about "how tough I had it" - none of which is true. It is you who has some inexplicable hang-up about it.

[crazy canuck]

Malthus, give it up dude.  Once the people of Languish decide something about you, that's it.  THE PEOPLE HAVE SPOKEN.  That's why I work in HR and eat out of dumpsters to these people, and will forever do so.

You can change Cal.  You have the power to raise yourself up to eat at gas stations.

[Legbiter]

Malthus, give it up dude.  Once the people of Languish decide something about you, that's it.  THE PEOPLE HAVE SPOKEN.  That's why I work in HR and eat out of dumpsters to these people, and will forever do so.

Gas station food-like substances too snobby for you? 

[frunk]

I don't think anybody disagrees that Malthus's experience was different from CC's or Meri's, but I don't think English supports a clear distinction between them without getting into wordy clarifications or outright twisting of the meaning of "poor".

[garbon]

I don't think anybody disagrees that Malthus's experience was different from CC's or Meri's, but I don't think English supports a clear distinction between them without getting into wordy clarifications or outright twisting of the meaning of "poor".

Well, MW has this as a description of poverty:

the state of one who lacks a usual or socially acceptable amount of money or material possessions

and Malthus has argued that his period after college is what typically happens after college, when kids have to suddenly support themselves.  So I don't think it would involve wordy clarifications or word-twisting if one wanted to say that Malthus had a usual amount of money for someone fresh out of college (particularly one not motivated to better himself).

[Malthus]

If you go back further in the thread you will see that I called you poor because you had claimed the same just before my post.  I had a bit of a brain cramp on that one because I had forgotten the family you were raised in.  You then set me straight and said you had a father who was a professor to which I said then you were not poor and for some reason unkown to me you seem to want to cling to the view that you had in fact been poor for an ever so brief span of your life.

If you want delusional you might look in the mirror.

Tell me this.  What is it about the being poor narrative that is so important for you Malthus?

Nothing.

Not being thought on this board a misleading crybaby who cried about how tough I had it and lied about my situation, which seems to be where you are comming from, has a certain amount of importance to me.

Indeed, in the other thread I said that if anyone could think of a better one-word label for "I had a shitty job and lived in a shitty place because I earned shit money after graduating with a degree that did not, alas, open job doors for me after university", rather than "I was poor after university", I'd happily use it, just to keep the peace.