The future George Zimmerman Acquittal Trial Megathread!

[derspiess]

But he wasn't acquitted based on Stand Your Ground.

He didn't have to be acquitted "based on" Stand Your Ground.

Exactly.

[DGuller]

I don't think it was so much corruption as it would have meant a whole lot of paperwork for both of us.

It's "professional courtesy".  Or corruption, as people outside of law enforcement umbrella would call it.

[grumbler]

  Fhdz & Seedy are indistinguishable these days.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure Stand Your Ground wasn't invoked during the trial.

Facts no longer matter.  When nominally "normal" people regret doing the proper thing, and the narrative involves "stand your ground" no matter how irrelevant that law was to the case at hand, you know the narrative has replaced the truth, so just stand aside and let the crazies talk crazy.

[The Minsky Moment]

How is SYG irrelevant to the Zimmerman case?

It was in the jury instructions:

If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in any place where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

The relevant language about no duty to retreat comes directly from the SYG statute passed in 2005.

[Razgovory]

You mean, Derspiess is wrong?  If he's wrong about this, what else could he be wrong about?

[Admiral Yi]

You mean, Derspiess is wrong?  If he's wrong about this, what else could he be wrong about?

He could be wrong about anything, but he's not wrong about this.  Zimmerman's defense was not based on SYG, because by the time it became applicable, Zimmerman was no longer standing.

[CountDeMoney]

Zimmerman's defense was not based on SYG,

We knew that.

because by the time it became applicable, Zimmerman was no longer standing.

Neither was Martin.  BADA BING

[Admiral Yi]

We knew that.

Apparently Raz didn't.

[The Minsky Moment]

No on this matter derspeiss is wrong, it isn't even close.

He said SYG wasn't "invoked" at the trial, when in fact it was read out to jurors by the Court as an instruction for deciding the case.  You can't get more invoked than that

Whether Zimmerman's defense was "based" on SYG is irrelevant.  It is commonplace for a defense to be based on something other than what may or does form the basis of a jury decision.

The defense was based on a story that Zimmerman could not retreat but whether the jury bought that we don't know.  There was some eyewitness testimony in the police report to suggest otherwise.  The jury also may not have believed Zimmerman wasn't in danger of serious harm either (the evidence could easily support that conclusion) and yet thought that was a danger of a forcible felony.  It is also possible that some jurors thought Zimmerman guilty but didn't properly understand what SYG meant and were persuaded to acquit at least partially on that basis.

Fact is we don't know what happened in the black box of the jury but we do know dead certain that SYG was a factor the court explicitly told them to consider in making their decision.

[Admiral Yi]

in·vokedin·vok·ing
Definition of INVOKE
1
a : to petition for help or support
b : to appeal to or cite as authority
2
: to call forth by incantation : conjure
3
: to make an earnest request for : solicit
4
: to put into effect or operation : implement
5
: bring about, cause
— in·vok·er noun
Examples of INVOKE

    He invoked the memory of his predecessor.
    She invoked history to prove her point.
    He invoked his Fifth Amendment privileges.
    The suspect invoked his right to an attorney.
    invoke the authority of the court

None of those seem to fit the judge "invoking" SYG.

[The Minsky Moment]

Seriously?

It is part of the law the jury is instructed to apply
I.e. "cite as authority"

[Admiral Yi]

You cite authority when you're constructing an argument.

[The Minsky Moment]

Actually no
In an argument to a jury, counsel never cites authority.  You only refer to the law as what the court will charge.
In fact the ONLY place authority is cited is in the jury instructions.  (The actual citations are in the draft charges but not read aloud)

[Admiral Yi]

Actually yes.

Counsel did not invoke SYG in the sense of appeal to.  The judge doesn't invoke anything because she's not arguing for or against any decision.

[sbr]

The murderer has been acquitted and no one's gun rights are at stake, why are you dumb fuckers still making such ridiculous arguments about this case?