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Women as Army Rangers and Navy Seals by 2016

Started by jimmy olsen, June 18, 2013, 01:28:27 AM

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Neil

Quote from: crazy canuck on June 18, 2013, 12:01:42 PM
Quote from: derspiess on June 18, 2013, 07:58:02 AM
Combat effectiveness and national security take a back seat to things like people's self-esteem.
Not sure why combat effectiveness would suffer if minimum standards are created to maintain such effectiveness.  Not sure what national security has to do with the issue.  Cant think of the last last female that pulled a Snowden.
I think he's working under the assumption that the standards that they set would have to be lowered for women to get in, which isn't entirely unreasonable.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

crazy canuck

Quote from: Neil on June 18, 2013, 12:06:00 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 18, 2013, 12:01:42 PM
Quote from: derspiess on June 18, 2013, 07:58:02 AM
Combat effectiveness and national security take a back seat to things like people's self-esteem.
Not sure why combat effectiveness would suffer if minimum standards are created to maintain such effectiveness.  Not sure what national security has to do with the issue.  Cant think of the last last female that pulled a Snowden.
I think he's working under the assumption that the standards that they set would have to be lowered for women to get in, which isn't entirely unreasonable.

Not sure why that assumption would be made.

The difficulty with the early cases where standards were set for the entry of women (which mainly took place in the context of firefighters) was that the standard had nothing to do with an analysis of what the minimum physical requirement might be to get the job done properly but rather an analysis was made of what the average male firefighter could achieve.

Courts in Canada and iirc the US rejected this kind of measurement as meaningless as a test of minimum standards and sent employers back to create meaningful measures of what a minimum standards should be to achieve whatever objective the employer had.

It may be that no female could meet a minimum standard for an elite fighting force.  But I am not sure why giving them the opportunity to meet the stardard would jeapardize the effectiveness of the force since the standard would be set at the level needed to maintain that effectiveness.

The Minsky Moment

Quote from: Neil on June 18, 2013, 10:31:39 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 18, 2013, 09:51:50 AM
So true but eventually the hysterical homophobes will fade away and we won't have to lose valuable gay servicemen.
Are gays especially valuable to you?

To my country.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

Ed Anger

Stay Alive...Let the Man Drive

derspiess

Quote from: crazy canuck on June 18, 2013, 12:11:01 PM
Not sure why that assumption would be made.

Because there's precedent.  US Army Airborne School used to be very tough, but now it's a joke.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

crazy canuck

Quote from: derspiess on June 18, 2013, 12:23:09 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 18, 2013, 12:11:01 PM
Not sure why that assumption would be made.

Because there's precedent.  US Army Airborne School used to be very tough, but now it's a joke.

Try reading the rest of my post

derspiess

Quote from: crazy canuck on June 18, 2013, 12:23:40 PM
Quote from: derspiess on June 18, 2013, 12:23:09 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 18, 2013, 12:11:01 PM
Not sure why that assumption would be made.

Because there's precedent.  US Army Airborne School used to be very tough, but now it's a joke.

Try reading the rest of my post

Okay. 

Done!
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Neil

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 18, 2013, 12:14:54 PM
Quote from: Neil on June 18, 2013, 10:31:39 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 18, 2013, 09:51:50 AM
So true but eventually the hysterical homophobes will fade away and we won't have to lose valuable gay servicemen.
Are gays especially valuable to you?
To my country.
The your country has made a critical error, setting gays above people.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

The Brain

Navy Seals show secret stuff to videogame developers. I'm sure a woman can do that just fine.
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

Phillip V

More women in the Army will increase my promotion potential and happiness. :)

mongers

I'm happy for the military and naval forces to maintain or adopt whatever culture/traditions they feel are most effective in maintaining their esprit do corps and enables them to fight at their most efficient.   :bowler:
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

Eddie Teach

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 18, 2013, 12:14:54 PM
Quote from: Neil on June 18, 2013, 10:31:39 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 18, 2013, 09:51:50 AM
So true but eventually the hysterical homophobes will fade away and we won't have to lose valuable gay servicemen.
Are gays especially valuable to you?

To my country.

Not so much the gay servicemen as the principle.
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

garbon

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on June 18, 2013, 06:12:36 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 18, 2013, 12:14:54 PM
Quote from: Neil on June 18, 2013, 10:31:39 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 18, 2013, 09:51:50 AM
So true but eventually the hysterical homophobes will fade away and we won't have to lose valuable gay servicemen.
Are gays especially valuable to you?

To my country.

Not so much the gay servicemen as the principle.

The principle that you can die for a country that won't recognize your relationships? Great principle.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Eddie Teach

Nah, I guess the real principle is "give an inch and they'll take a mile"  :P
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

Neil

Quote from: garbon on June 18, 2013, 06:16:28 PM
The principle that you can die for a country that won't recognize your relationships? Great principle.
Maybe they should adopt more socially constructive relationships.  The drug addict can die for the country that doesn't approve of his hobbies too.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.