The 100 Year Starship Project

[katmai]

It is his super power.

[grumbler]

Jesus, Tim can retard up a thread in one post.

Tim was, at least, trying to be helpful.  Those responding to him:  not so much.

While I understand where he is coming from, I'm going to disagree with Tim that interstellar travel, even with a more distant timeline, is less exciting for students than West-Virginia-izing near-earth space in a shorter timeline.  More importantly, the concept of interstellar travel brings up a bunch of new challenges that are more inter-disciplinary than the more-engineering-oriented challenges of near-term, near-earth space efforts.  For instance, in Earth science, they could ask the questions "why is earth habitable?" "Why are different areas of earth differently habitable?"  "How much variation from the conditions we have on earth could we see and still call a target planet habitable?"  "How would we find out whether the elements that make Earth habitable exist on another planet?"  "How accurate would that knowledge have to be?" etc.

The whole idea is to involve all possible disciplines.  The sciences are pretty easy to fit in.  History classes could look at the question "What kind of person would be willing to make such a journey, based on what we know of human colonization in the past?"  Humanities classes could look at "How can we transmit our culture to this new colony?" "What elements of our culture should we transmit?"  "What elements of our culture, if any, should we deliberately not transmit to this new colony?"  Language classes could look at "What is language?" "How could we tell if a signal from the target is made up of language, as opposed to some other kind of patterned 'noise?'"  etc.

[Neil]

Of course they will get a return on their investment, why wouldn't they?

Only governments are barred from claiming property space, not private companies.

They won't get a return because they're doing an illegal thing.

Private actors are only allowed to operate in space under the supervision of a government.  Article 6 of the Outer Space Treaty.  What governments can't do, neither can private actors.

[CountDeMoney]

Jesus, Tim can retard up a thread in one post.

Tim was, at least, trying to be helpful.  Those responding to him:  not so much.

When Timmay goes retardo on asteroid mining in the next decade, he deserves the abuse he gets.

The whole idea is to involve all possible disciplines.  The sciences are pretty easy to fit in.  History classes could look at the question "What kind of person would be willing to make such a journey, based on what we know of human colonization in the past?"  Humanities classes could look at "How can we transmit our culture to this new colony?" "What elements of our culture should we transmit?"  "What elements of our culture, if any, should we deliberately not transmit to this new colony?"  Language classes could look at "What is language?" "How could we tell if a signal from the target is made up of language, as opposed to some other kind of patterned 'noise?'"  etc.

I agree with all this stuff.

[Siege]

I like it.

I'll say the Orion Project is our best bet for interstellar travel.

[Razgovory]

I like it.

I'll say the Orion Project is our best bet for interstellar travel.

We'll need something much better then that.

[grumbler]

I like it.

I'll say the Orion Project is our best bet for interstellar travel.

Something like the Orion Project would certainly be something worth considering, and the physics involved is both complex and interesting.

[Siege]

I know Orion ships are kind of slow, 50% lightspeed at best, but right now it doesn't look like we have anything better.
If we build Orion ships with a cryogenesis stasis chambers, we can expand to near star systems, firefly style, creating independent colonies.
Of course, cryogenesis does not look like a viable technology right now.
And nobody is going to invest on colonizers that will not provide return money.

[Siege]

So it seems we need to develop space technology to a point where we can go there and back, creating a "trade route" of sorts, for people to invest in any interstellar expedition.

I don't think we can do this in the foreseeable future.
And I can't see people in power supporting non-return colonization.

[grumbler]

I think the thread will be more interesting (and more useful, to be selfish) if we focus on what the questions should be, rather than attempting to provide off-the-cuff answers to questions that may not even be relevant.

[Neil]

It seems rather unlikely that any interstellar colony would ever provide a return on investment.  When getting there takes a lifetime, it would be unlikely that we see much trade in anything other than information, which I suppose could be transmitted via large, powerful laser signals.

[Razgovory]

I know Orion ships are kind of slow, 50% lightspeed at best, but right now it doesn't look like we have anything better.
If we build Orion ships with a cryogenesis stasis chambers, we can expand to near star systems, firefly style, creating independent colonies.
Of course, cryogenesis does not look like a viable technology right now.
And nobody is going to invest on colonizers that will not provide return money.

Think more like .01-.04C at best.  I'm don't think Cryogenesis is actually possible.  A space ship that takes several hundred years doesn't seem practical.  Can you imagine a functioning machine lasting that long?   You'll need something with a lot more kick.  Like anti-matter.  The Ramscoop is an elegant solution, but it has a bunch of problems and may not be feasible.  Still, it's worth a look.

[grumbler]

It seems rather unlikely that any interstellar colony would ever provide a return on investment.  When getting there takes a lifetime, it would be unlikely that we see much trade in anything other than information, which I suppose could be transmitted via large, powerful laser signals.

I suspect  that you are correct.  I don't think pure economics will drive the first starship mission.  The question "what would motivate the first starship mission" isn't necessarily a very interesting one, though.

[Neil]

I think that what would motivate the first starship mission is a very interesting question.  But it's also very difficult to answer concretely and satisfactorily, while specific technical and social challenges might be easier and more fruitful.

[Razgovory]

I think that what would motivate the first starship mission is a very interesting question.  But it's also very difficult to answer concretely and satisfactorily, while specific technical and social challenges might be easier and more fruitful.

I agree.  One of the main problems with space exploration is motivation.  Idealism is all well in good, but this is going to cost billions and billions of dollars.  Somebody has to pay for that, and they are unlikely to get a return on their investment.