The Flu and Yu

[Bluebook]

From an individual perspective it is far better to have the flu (and then being immune to that strain ever after) than to take a flu shot that may or may not protect you from the flu.

Granted, flu is not the most painful disease known to man, but how exactly is it better to get the flu than get the shot?

What Meri said. The immunity you get from having had the flu is "broader" than that one stain. It is also more likely you get a less severe type of sickness the next time. Like a sore throat instead of high fever, etc.

The flu shot protects you X% for one year against one strain. Getting the flu protects you 100% against that strain forever, AND gives you X% against silmilar strains, AND makes it more likely that you will have less symptoms the next time you get the flu. Not to mention that all these benefits are lifelong. What will your immunesystem look like in 40 years? All the effects from the flu shots are gone then and you have no natural immunity to speak of?

Like I said, from an individual perspective it makes more sense to not get the shot.

[merithyn]

What Meri said. The immunity you get from having had the flu is "broader" than that one stain. It is also more likely you get a less severe type of sickness the next time. Like a sore throat instead of high fever, etc.

The flu shot protects you X% for one year against one strain. Getting the flu protects you 100% against that strain forever, AND gives you X% against silmilar strains, AND makes it more likely that you will have less symptoms the next time you get the flu. Not to mention that all these benefits are lifelong. What will your immunesystem look like in 40 years? All the effects from the flu shots are gone then and you have no natural immunity to speak of?

Like I said, from an individual perspective it makes more sense to not get the shot.

The bolded part isn't true. The immunity you develop from getting the flu doesn't last forever, like the chicken pox immunity. It has a shelf-life. Admittedly, the shelf-life is a good bit longer than with the shot (I think it's 5-7 years compared to 1 with the shot), but still not lifelong. Of course, every time you're exposed to a flu strain, you develop new immunities, so your body evolves with the flu strains, again, something the shots don't always keep pace with.

[Bluebook]

Ok, that is not what Ive been told, but Im not going to argue.

[Malthus]

From an individual perspective it is far better to have the flu (and then being immune to that strain ever after) than to take a flu shot that may or may not protect you from the flu.

Granted, flu is not the most painful disease known to man, but how exactly is it better to get the flu than get the shot?

What Meri said. The immunity you get from having had the flu is "broader" than that one stain. It is also more likely you get a less severe type of sickness the next time. Like a sore throat instead of high fever, etc.

The flu shot protects you X% for one year against one strain. Getting the flu protects you 100% against that strain forever, AND gives you X% against silmilar strains, AND makes it more likely that you will have less symptoms the next time you get the flu. Not to mention that all these benefits are lifelong. What will your immunesystem look like in 40 years? All the effects from the flu shots are gone then and you have no natural immunity to speak of?

Like I said, from an individual perspective it makes more sense to not get the shot.

Any proof for all this? So far, seems based on something someone read once. Looking around the 'net, much of what is written on the subject appears to come from lunatic anti-vaccine advocates. There is a lot of internet mythology around vaccination.

[garbon]

Also odd given that CDC lists that seasonal vaccines protect against 3 strains.

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/keyfacts.htm

The seasonal flu vaccine protects against three influenza viruses that research indicates will be most common during the upcoming season. Three kinds of influenza viruses commonly circulate among people today: influenza B viruses, influenza A (H1N1) viruses, and influenza A (H3N2) viruses. Each year, one flu virus of each kind is used to produce seasonal influenza vaccine.

And then:

Also, multiple studies conducted over different seasons and across vaccine types and influenza virus subtypes have shown that the body's immunity to influenza viruses (acquired either through natural infection or vaccination) declines over time.

[Malthus]

Yeah, I'd be interested in seeing some reliable study that demonstrated a difference between "natural" immunity and immunity from the vaccine. So far, what I'm reading is that both last a while but not necessarily forever.

If they aren't markedly different, I'm not seeing a benefit to getting the disease over getting a needle.

[Bluebook]

Any proof for all this? So far, seems based on something someone read once. Looking around the 'net, much of what is written on the subject appears to come from lunatic anti-vaccine advocates. There is a lot of internet mythology around vaccination.

No proof or internet source Im afraid. The info is from one of our top ranking experts on influensa though. Back in 08 when the big pig-flu reached pandemic status, we had a big information meeting here in parliament with all the relevant political advisors (of which I was one) and medical experts. So in my mind, this is rock-solid. But I completely understand if you dont want to take my word for it. Can give you the experts name if you want but doubt that will make that much difference.. Prof Björn Olsson if I remember correctly.

[crazy canuck]

If one gets a flu shot they not only get an increased chance of getting the flu from the viruses that they were inoculated against that year but if one also gets the shot every year then your body builds up resistences to all the various flu viruses inoculated against over the years - alough that protection fades with time.

In addition to the protection one gives to themselves avoiding getting the flu also protects those around the said person.  Those that advacate protecting themselves by getting the flu are not only illogical but also a danger to those people around them for whom the flu could mean death.

[Malthus]

Any proof for all this? So far, seems based on something someone read once. Looking around the 'net, much of what is written on the subject appears to come from lunatic anti-vaccine advocates. There is a lot of internet mythology around vaccination.

No proof or internet source Im afraid. The info is from one of our top ranking experts on influensa though. Back in 08 when the big pig-flu reached pandemic status, we had a big information meeting here in parliament with all the relevant political advisors (of which I was one) and medical experts. So in my mind, this is rock-solid. But I completely understand if you dont want to take my word for it. Can give you the experts name if you want but doubt that will make that much difference.. Prof Björn Olsson if I remember correctly.

Only thing in English I could find was this.

http://medinab.blogspot.ca/2012/02/got-right-on-vaccination.html

It was about a secret agreement that Sweden has signed with pharmaceutical company Glaxo and you could not get away.

Had to use
The agreement forced Sweden to purchase drugs for about 1.3 billion when the WHO declared that swine flu was a pandemic of class 6, the most severe form of the worldwide epidemic. According to the newspaper's investigation could be for political reasons not to let the expensive medicine lie unused. Hence came the decision on mass vaccination, which only three other countries carried out.

Bjorn Olsson says he feels happy about the revelation that Swedish newspaper Svenska Dagbladet brought.

- I thought it was odd that we would carry out mass vaccination when all the facts spoke about the flu was milder than other flus. But did they not responsible for. You should have studied the effects of influenza in New Zealand and Australia more closely because these countries were hit first.

In this context, he talks about that a normal flu usually cause about 2,000 Swedes died. This compares favorably with the 70 Swedes who died from complications of swine flu.

Test of 300 children
Bjorn Olsson is also critical to the Glaxo only tested the drug on 300 children. According to him it was too few for it to get a picture of the possible side effects.

- Now, many children suffered from narcolepsy, as I see it, this is more serious than the thalidomide scandal since the mass vaccination could have been avoided if the responsible officials have been more accurate. Ultimately falls a heavy responsibility on the minister, Maria Larsson, says Björn Olsson.

He calls for an independent inquiry to examine what happened when the decision on mass vaccination was taken. All in order to avoid similar mistakes in future.

Comparing mass flu vaccination unfavorably with the Thalidomide scandal = probably a nutter. Assuming all this is accurate of course.

[Fate]

Never got one, probably never will.

What I dont get about the US fixation with flu vaccine is why so many non-sick non-elderly get it. From an individual perspective it is far better to have the flu (and then being immune to that strain ever after) than to take a flu shot that may or may not protect you from the flu.

I have not seen any research, but I strongly suspect that all these years of flu shots have really led to a lower basic immunity/immune system  in the population over there.

Sigh.

Vaccinations are the single greatest development of Western medicine yet idiots like you aren't seen as bat shit crazy. You make me want to root for the Muslims.

Thank god I'm not going into pediatrics or primary care. I don't know how they manage to stay sane with a population as willfully ignorant as ours.

[Fate]

From an individual perspective it is far better to have the flu (and then being immune to that strain ever after) than to take a flu shot that may or may not protect you from the flu.

Granted, flu is not the most painful disease known to man, but how exactly is it better to get the flu than get the shot?

The seasonal flu kills three to four times more Americans per year than AIDS. In pandemic years like 1918 the influenza virus has proven capable of killing off 2.5-5% of the world human population. It certainly ranks up there as one of the most painful diseases known to man.

You don't weaken your immune system by getting exposed to killed viral antigens via a needle injection versus being inoculated through respiratory droplets from the guy next to you on the bus.

[lustindarkness]

Mandated by Uncle Sammy.

I got it in Sept, got the flu in Dec. LOL

[Tonitrus]

Mandated by Uncle Sammy.

I got it in Sept, got the flu in Dec. LOL

Did you get the flu mist, or the actual shot?

They usually try to pass us off with the mist, but I said "fuck that" and went to Costco for an injection.

[Fate]

Mandated by Uncle Sammy.

I got it in Sept, got the flu in Dec. LOL

Did you actually go to a clinic and get tested for influenza in December? Maybe you did get influenza from one of these strains not covered by the trivalent vaccine. Maybe you got an infection with a different kind of virus. Yeah, we like to think that we can self diagnose the flu based purely on physical symptoms - myalgia, fever, chills, etc. but the specificity of those symptoms is relatively poor. A lot of things can cause those symptoms, only one of them is the flu.

[lustindarkness]

Mist.

Yes, properly diagnosed with flu.