The Great Debate Megathread! Black Lincoln versus whiter, richer Douglas!

[Sheilbh]

Maybe Obama just sucks eh?  Anybody think of that?

I think this is the most likely explanation.

[merithyn]

Maybe Obama just sucks eh?  Anybody think of that?

Past experiences prove otherwise. It's not that he was just "off". It was that he's typically very good in those venues. Which is why there is so much confusion about this time.

When I went to Denver, it took me two days to acclimate to the elevation. I felt like crap. Now, I was anemic at the time, but I was also 18 years old and fairly athletic. I can easily see how arriving when he did could make him look so exhausted.

It doesn't explain his bad performance, but it could explain why he looked so rough and sluggish.

[Kleves]

Maybe Obama just sucks eh?  Anybody think of that?

Did you write this?

The real Obama disappoints
By Ed Rogers
There is a great deal of weeping and gnashing of teeth among Obama supporters this morning because in their view, their man didn't do well in last night's debate.  But President Obama didn't do poorly, he was just Obama.  The left still projects its ideals of what a leader and a good candidate should be onto Obama, even though he has proved to be deficient as a president in both style and substance.  Obama has been overrated for a long time.  He was pitch-perfect in 2008 because of the times, but now he has a record to defend, explaining to do and a certain level of performance that is required.  Last night, he wasn't up to the challenge.

What did Obama supporters expect? There is no defense for Obama's performance in office. And his whole campaign has been about distraction, which he can't artfully talk about face-to-face with Romney.

Andrew Sullivan, like my colleague Carter Eskew, is an intellectually honest and detached political observer.  His analysis, along with that of Carter's, couldn't be more crystal clear. Sullivan, live-blogging the debate, said, "Obama is missing energy. optimism, passion." He also noted that the debate was "a disaster for the president for the key people he needs to reach, and his effete, wonkish lectures may have jolted a lot of independents into giving Romney a second look."

The Obama campaign must be reeling.  Obama doesn't admit mistakes, so there will be someone internally who will receive the blame for the president's poor performance.  Also, I assume that externally, the left and the campaign will attack the debate itself — and the moderator — although that will be difficult, as Obama talked for four minutes longer than Romney did.

Dan Balz of The Post, writing on the debate immediately after its conclusion, said, "The debate was generally civil and proved to be one of the most substantive and detailed in recent memory." Balz's unbiased analysis stands in stark contrast with that of the New York Times, which has already started in its effort to belittle the entire affair, calling the debate an "unenlightening recitation of tired talking points and mendacity."

So what will Obama and his allies do now?  There will be a huge appetite by the Obama campaign and the left to change the subject.  Romney and Paul Ryan must be very sure-footed on the stump and very careful in the interviews they give.  Any miscue or small gaffe will give the Obama forces what they need to open a new line of attack on Romney.  If Romney and Ryan are focused and poised for the next few days, then the effects of last night's debate will be even more significant for Campaign 2012.

However, in campaigns, nothing is ever as good or as bad as it appears.  The media tend to slosh from one extreme to the other.  So Romney hasn't become a giant overnight, and Obama hasn't blown it.  The fundamental change produced by last night's debate wasn't a change at all.  The real Romney, who is informed, cheerful and well-prepared, finally got his chance for a one-on-one contrast with the dour, smug, overly self-confident, one-dimensional performer that is Obama. The race is very fluid and will likely remain that way until the very end.

The reality that the Obama campaign is waking up to this morning is that the next few days will probably be the most difficult to date in the president's charmed career.

[alfred russel]

Then again, John Sununu said it was because he's "lazy" and "not so bright", so maybe it's just because he's, you know, a nigger.

If a lazy and stupid guy rises to the top of 300m people, what does that say about the rest of us? 

[Razgovory]

It is different if you are in an athletic competition. Playing your typical NFL game is probably a bit more aerobically taxing than talking for 90 minutes.

I think aircraft are only pressurized to 10,000 ft. Everyone is different, but Denver probably isn't that high for most people. If anything, Romney getting there 4 days earlier and Obama a few hours may show the focus each had on debate prep. Obama has a day job after all.

I wasn't addressing it as a point of failure for his performance;  he did that all on his own.    I was addressing the issue of his noticeable tiredness and physical lethargy.

Then again, John Sununu said it was because he's "lazy" and "not so bright", so maybe it's just because he's, you know, a nigger.

I think the word he was looking for was "shiftless".

[derspiess]

Have you ever gone from 100 ft above sea level to 5000 ft above sea level in a matter of hours? It doesn't just drain you; it almost makes you feel sick. 

I have on multiple occasions & it didn't bother me that much.  But everybody is different

Do you smoke?

No, just cigars.  I had been smoking cigarettes (temporary habit) my first time I flew to Denver, though. 

[lustindarkness]

My first day at 7800 feet (Ouray CO) was a bit tough even with proper hydration, the next day I went to 13,100 just fine (good thing I did not hike up ).

[CountDeMoney]

Then again, John Sununu said it was because he's "lazy" and "not so bright", so maybe it's just because he's, you know, a nigger.

If a lazy and stupid guy rises to the top of 300m people, what does that say about the rest of us? 

What does that say about us?  That we reelected him in 2004.

[derspiess]

Obama actually lost the debate because Mitt cheated: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/10/05/1140435/-Did-Mitt-use-crib-notes-for-the-debate

[Sheilbh]

Conservative blogs have been suggesting Obama had an ear piece in. No one has a monopoly on stupid.

[merithyn]

Obama actually lost the debate because Mitt cheated: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/10/05/1140435/-Did-Mitt-use-crib-notes-for-the-debate

That's ridiculous. 

Mitt won because he was the better debater that night. It's stupid to say otherwise. I still feel like he didn't clarify a whole lot, but he was more likable, more direct, and certainly more engaged than Obama.

Besides, who walks into a debate without note cards? That would just be beyond stupid.

[Razgovory]

Maybe Obama just sucks eh?  Anybody think of that?

Did you write this?

The real Obama disappoints
By Ed Rogers
There is a great deal of weeping and gnashing of teeth among Obama supporters this morning because in their view, their man didn't do well in last night's debate.  But President Obama didn't do poorly, he was just Obama.  The left still projects its ideals of what a leader and a good candidate should be onto Obama, even though he has proved to be deficient as a president in both style and substance.  Obama has been overrated for a long time.  He was pitch-perfect in 2008 because of the times, but now he has a record to defend, explaining to do and a certain level of performance that is required.  Last night, he wasn't up to the challenge.

What did Obama supporters expect? There is no defense for Obama's performance in office. And his whole campaign has been about distraction, which he can't artfully talk about face-to-face with Romney.

Andrew Sullivan, like my colleague Carter Eskew, is an intellectually honest and detached political observer.  His analysis, along with that of Carter's, couldn't be more crystal clear. Sullivan, live-blogging the debate, said, "Obama is missing energy. optimism, passion." He also noted that the debate was "a disaster for the president for the key people he needs to reach, and his effete, wonkish lectures may have jolted a lot of independents into giving Romney a second look."

The Obama campaign must be reeling.  Obama doesn't admit mistakes, so there will be someone internally who will receive the blame for the president's poor performance.  Also, I assume that externally, the left and the campaign will attack the debate itself — and the moderator — although that will be difficult, as Obama talked for four minutes longer than Romney did.

Dan Balz of The Post, writing on the debate immediately after its conclusion, said, "The debate was generally civil and proved to be one of the most substantive and detailed in recent memory." Balz's unbiased analysis stands in stark contrast with that of the New York Times, which has already started in its effort to belittle the entire affair, calling the debate an "unenlightening recitation of tired talking points and mendacity."

So what will Obama and his allies do now?  There will be a huge appetite by the Obama campaign and the left to change the subject.  Romney and Paul Ryan must be very sure-footed on the stump and very careful in the interviews they give.  Any miscue or small gaffe will give the Obama forces what they need to open a new line of attack on Romney.  If Romney and Ryan are focused and poised for the next few days, then the effects of last night's debate will be even more significant for Campaign 2012.

However, in campaigns, nothing is ever as good or as bad as it appears.  The media tend to slosh from one extreme to the other.  So Romney hasn't become a giant overnight, and Obama hasn't blown it.  The fundamental change produced by last night's debate wasn't a change at all.  The real Romney, who is informed, cheerful and well-prepared, finally got his chance for a one-on-one contrast with the dour, smug, overly self-confident, one-dimensional performer that is Obama. The race is very fluid and will likely remain that way until the very end.

The reality that the Obama campaign is waking up to this morning is that the next few days will probably be the most difficult to date in the president's charmed career.

Wow, Looks like Obama lost the Conservative hack vote.

[merithyn]

derspeiss, I know you're in full-on Republican mode while you're here (and you pretty much have to be defensive around here), but I have a question for you. As a Romney supporter, are you happy with how he's handled himself during this election cycle? In particular, how he's represented his ideas and how he's handled the pressure over the past year or so.

I'm not asking for the talking points that I can find on the typical Conservative website/paper/social site. You're an intelligent man. I'd really like to know your personal likes and dislikes of the man. I'd like to know if you're supporting him because he's the lesser of two evils, in your opinion, or if you're supporting him because you honestly think that he'll make a good (or great) president. (I know that there are plenty of Obama supporters who believe that Obama is the lesser of two evils rather than because he's going to be a great president in round two. I know few Republicans who are willing to say one way or another how they feel about Romney without resorting to Fox News talking points. I really want to know.)

For the record, I honestly don't feel like I know enough about what Romney really wants to do to have an opinion on him. What I do know isn't pleasant, but I know that it's a very small part of the picture and I'd like to know more.

[MadImmortalMan]

Maybe Obama just sucks eh?  Anybody think of that?

Past experiences prove otherwise. It's not that he was just "off". It was that he's typically very good in those venues. Which is why there is so much confusion about this time.

When I went to Denver, it took me two days to acclimate to the elevation. I felt like crap. Now, I was anemic at the time, but I was also 18 years old and fairly athletic. I can easily see how arriving when he did could make him look so exhausted.

It doesn't explain his bad performance, but it could explain why he looked so rough and sluggish.

Doesn't bother me at all. 

Of course, most elevation changes I experience are down, not up. 

Maybe if I visit PDH or something.

[CountDeMoney]

Hell, I have a tough enough time with getting in and out of the Jeep, let alone the three flights of stairs to my front door.  I would probably pass out during the final approach to DEN.