The China Thread

[Berkut]

I think it is wonderful. It looks as something is being done without anything actually being done. It saves a lot of energy.

What do you think is the right course of action? What, in your eyes, would not just be a cynical but ultimately pointless gesture signifying nothing?

Yeah, I am kind of at a loss there. What should the West DO about China and their actions?

I mean....whatever the West can do, it has to start with the political realization and will that something ought to be done. So this kind of stuff is exactly what we would want, right? More politicians realizing that cynical and pointless gestures will get them notice and votes? I think that is how democracy works, right?

This is always the problem with people who want things done - even when they are right and well meaning. You cannot get from A to Z without going through the steps in between. And that sucks almost all of the time.

[HVC]

The west can't really do much in regards to china. its too integrated in our economy. strongly worded letters and toothless sanctions are the most we can do, i think.

[Jacob]

The west can't really do much in regards to china. its too integrated in our economy. strongly worded letters and toothless sanctions are the most we can do, i think.

Yeah, I think those things are tiny but still may matter. Many little grains of sands, basically.

[Grey Fox]

China makes our stuff but China cannot feed it's population by itself. It is a delicate balance on both sides.

[HVC]

The west can't really do much in regards to china. its too integrated in our economy. strongly worded letters and toothless sanctions are the most we can do, i think.

Yeah, I think those things are tiny but still may matter. Many little grains of sands, basically.

I don't know if it's just the (controlled) media making it out of china, but theses tiny actions seem to get the Chinese population more entrenched. which works out for Xi. the populace sides with the government against the lying west.

[Berkut]

At the risk of exposing my ignorance....why is China screwing over the Ughyurs to begin with? What is the perception of the threat that needs the action being taken?

[Jacob]

I don't know if it's just the (controlled) media making it out of china, but theses tiny actions seem to get the Chinese population more entrenched. which works out for Xi. the populace sides with the government against the lying west.

Hard to tell, honestly. Few Chinese people are going to speak out against the government these days. IMO, if the population sentiment moves it's going to come as an apparently sudden shift from "everything as usual" to "holy shit, where did this popular unrest come from" with subtle signals only really noticable in retrospect (unless you're very very looped in).

That's my expectation. I know Chinese people in China who speak out against the government privately - and even semi-publicly - but most folks are going to keep their heads down.

[Barrister]

At the risk of exposing my ignorance....why is China screwing over the Ughyurs to begin with? What is the perception of the threat that needs the action being taken?

They're muslims who have agitated for independence in the past.

[Jacob]

At the risk of exposing my ignorance....why is China screwing over the Ughyurs to begin with? What is the perception of the threat that needs the action being taken?

I think there are a few factors in play.

1) It's just part of the general attempt at gradually assimilate minorities within the current imperial borders. The Uighurs have perhaps been more resistant than other groups in recent times.

2) The Uighurs are Muslims, and some of their pushback against Hanification has centred on their religious practices, and has - on at least a few occasions - led to terrorist type attacks inside core Han areas (mostly knife attacks). This has - historically - allowed the central government to speak of Muslim terrorists and act against the Uighurs without much comment for decades as they've tapped into anti-Muslim and anti-terrorist points of view.

3) The central government is highly suspicious of organized groups that are not beholden to the party. Religious groupings are seen as potential locuses for organizing anti-government resistance, and are therefore monitored and frequently required to show submission in various ways - and punished if they're not. Xi and his clique are particularly insecure in this regard, but it goes back before him (e.g. Falun Gong, control of Chinese Christians etc).

4) There has been large scale riots and clashes between Uighurs and Han in Xinjiang, f. ex. the Urumqi riots of 2009. From the perspective of individual Han people it's very much a "I'm just trying to live my life in this part of China, the Uighurs are unreasonably violent and hateful - the government should protect me." From the Uighur perspective it's something like "they're trying to make us a minority in our own land by bringing in countless settlers, and they're keeping us as second class citizens with wealth accumulation, jobs, and influence primarily accruing to Han people" (this is the same story in Tibet as well).

5) And yes, there's an Uighur independence movement which is anathema to Chinese imperialist ambitions.

[Josquius]

I do think with the Uighurs that the CCP knows nothing lasts forever, including their rule... So they better make the genocide of non-han folks in the west a fait accompli just in case. The whole civilization not country world view at work.

And yeah, the west has really failed the Uighurs due to China being able to lean into the fighting terrorism angle.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

I do think with the Uighurs that the CCP knows nothing lasts forever, including their rule... So they better make the genocide of non-han folks in the west a fait accompli just in case. The whole civilization not country world view at work.

And yeah, the west has really failed the Uighurs due to China being able to lean into the fighting terrorism angle.

The CCP would have found another reason to do what they do so it's not something to be laid at the door of the West. That's too easy a cop out.
What is typical is that the many islamic countries, who are so glad to shit on the west for perceived slights towards their 'religion', are not reacting. From officials that's to be expected since their usually criminals themselves, but their populaces aren't speaking out either. Destroying the Uyghurs is apparently less bad that Macron saying that Paty was in his right. No oil boycots this time it seems.
And that's something to populations in West also notice which will not help the ability of the West to act in a meaningful and coordinated way (on the contrary: I see  way too many people agreeing with the CCP on their dealings with the Uyghurs)

[Jacob]

The CCP would have found another reason to do what they do so it's not something to be laid at the door of the West. That's too easy a cop out.

Yeah agreed. I don't think it's something that the West is responsible for. It has coloured the West's perception, I think, at least until fairly recently.

What is typical is that the many islamic countries, who are so glad to shit on the west for perceived slights towards their 'religion', are not reacting. From officials that's to be expected since their usually criminals themselves, but their populaces aren't speaking out either.

Yeah, it seems that a non-trivial set of governments in the Muslim world are more interested in collaboration with China than doing much for the Uighurs. That said, as I understand it Turkey - and the Turkish population in general - are pretty sympathetic to then Uighurs given the ethno-cultural connection (Uighurs are a Turkic people).

THAT said, China is definitely recruiting amenable Turks on an individual level to help with the suppression of the Uighurs.

[Sheilbh]

Yeah, it seems that a non-trivial set of governments in the Muslim world are more interested in collaboration with China than doing much for the Uighurs. That said, as I understand it Turkey - and the Turkish population in general - are pretty sympathetic to then Uighurs given the ethno-cultural connection (Uighurs are a Turkic people).

THAT said, China is definitely recruiting amenable Turks on an individual level to help with the suppression of the Uighurs.

Yeah I think Turkey has been far stronger on this than most other governments especially in the Middle East but also Pakistan - and interestingly there are reports of China considering sending a peacekeeping force into Afghanistan presumably to support pro-Pakistan elements.

And, obviously, the most prominent individual/celebrity statement was Ozil which was very much aimed at the rest of the Muslim world not calling this out. I think that was a not insignificant reason Arsenal decided to move him on, so he's now playing in Turkey.

[Monoriu]

At the risk of exposing my ignorance....why is China screwing over the Ughyurs to begin with? What is the perception of the threat that needs the action being taken?

The Uighurs are viewed as terrorists or at least terrorist supporters by Mainland Chinese. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Kunming_attack

A group of eight knife-wielding terrorists attacked passengers in the Kunming Railway Station in Kunming, Yunnan, China, on 1 March 2014.[2] The attackers pulled out long-bladed knives and stabbed and slashed passengers at random. The assailants killed 31 civilians and injured more than 140 people.

[garbon]

At the risk of exposing my ignorance....why is China screwing over the Ughyurs to begin with? What is the perception of the threat that needs the action being taken?

The Uighurs are viewed as terrorists or at least terrorist supporters by Mainland Chinese. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Kunming_attack

A group of eight knife-wielding terrorists attacked passengers in the Kunming Railway Station in Kunming, Yunnan, China, on 1 March 2014.[2] The attackers pulled out long-bladed knives and stabbed and slashed passengers at random. The assailants killed 31 civilians and injured more than 140 people.

If you don't want to actually answer his question, why bother posting?