The China Thread

[Josquius]

Guys, you are starting to make my stomach turn.

I am quite certain the Uighurs are being oppressed for the same reason the Soviet regimes oppressed their own peoples, why Stalin relocated the Crimean Tatars to Asia, the Albanians were cleansed in Kosovo or the Armenians were genocided in Turkey: they were deemed insufficiently docile, and too reluctant in taking it on the chin from the dominating/foreign culture/ethnicity acting like a dominating culture/ethnicity.

and that's why the right to self-determinations matters for all nations.

----------

anyways: both Serpentza and laowhy86 on youtube are pretty interesting when it comes to China. Both lived there for quite a while before having to leave (due to the CCP not being able to take any for of criticism, iirc)

I used to watch their videos a lot, particularly serpentza (laowhy is too unlikeable). I like their motorbike journeys ones.
Though lately he has kind of flown off the deep end. You can see why with the crap he has been through. But he has dropped any pretense of objectivity and is just doing yet more of the China uncensored (also once OK) style everything about China is evil stuff.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Must be a crisis for you, Ivan. Separatism and Islam.

stop projecting your issues on me, Garbon.
It's not because the Uyghurs are following a reprehensible ideology that they, as a nation, don't have any rights on their own country. After all, the Germans stopped being nazis and at some point the Chinese will liberate themselves from the CCP too.
Clearly the crisis is all on your side.

[Eddie Teach]

I'm rubber, you're glue?

[Valmy]

and that's why the right to self-determinations matters for all nations.

I would say human rights matters. Self-determination is exactly the justification for these kinds of atrocities. Got to get the right sorts of people on that land so it can "self determine" the correct fashion.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

and that's why the right to self-determinations matters for all nations.

I would say human rights matters. Self-determination is exactly the justification for these kinds of atrocities. Got to get the right sorts of people on that land so it can "self determine" the correct fashion.

You're forgetting that people are not the same and that people auto-congretate into similar groups (tribes or nations once the scale is sufficient).
In other words: even if all the world was honkey-dory and everyone one had full human rights you'd still end up with differences on how to govern society that transcend the purely ideological but are based on the shared cultural and historical experiences of the group. A Frenchman would still not be a German, would still not be an Egyptian, would still not be an American or whatever... all of these groups run their societies differently and would still do so if no rights were trampeled on.
Self-determination would still be required, unless you want to force everyone into to same straightjacket.

[Josquius]

In happier Chinese news.... This story was simply bizzare.

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/russian-man-trapped-on-chinese-reality-tv-show-finally-voted-out

China WTF.

[Monoriu]

In happier Chinese news.... This story was simply bizzare.

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/russian-man-trapped-on-chinese-reality-tv-show-finally-voted-out

China WTF.

A contract is a contract.  Don't like the contractual obligations?  Don't sign the contract in the first place

[Jacob]

So apparently Xi's CCP has just announced that the Cultural Revolution was a positive evolution in Chinese history.

Just fucking stellar.

[Sheilbh]

Worth noting the EU has now suspended work on trying to ratify the EU-China investment deal. Not really sure it was worth rushing through at the end of last year

[crazy canuck]

So apparently Xi's CCP has just announced that the Cultural Revolution was a positive evolution in Chinese history.

Just fucking stellar.

Wow.  The ministry of truth must be in overdrive working on all the now required edits to the official record.

[Tonitrus]

So apparently Xi's CCP has just announced that the Cultural Revolution was a positive evolution in Chinese history.

Just fucking stellar.

Wow.  The ministry of truth must be in overdrive working on all the now required edits to the official record.

More interesting considering his family history (if his wiki entry is to be believed) with the Cultural Revolution. 

But that may well be my bourgeoisie, Westerner perspective.

[grumbler]

[Threviel]

I once talked about Mao with a Chinese man, he was born perhaps in the 60's. He was very interested in history and had travelled around the world and I asked him how they view Mao nowadays. He said that for his parents and their generation Mao was a hero, but for him, and his generation Deng was the great hero. Deng opened up and stabilized Chinese politics and made China the powerhouse it is today.

Sad to hear that Xi is taking a big dump on all that, but I guess action and re-action. In a few years the purges will start and when Xi dies in a few decades China will probably go to shit if there's no new Deng.

[Josquius]

So apparently Xi's CCP has just announced that the Cultural Revolution was a positive evolution in Chinese history.

Just fucking stellar.

Have they stopped the push to bring back Chinese culture too? Or just trying to square two different things?

[Syt]

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/hungary-blocks-eu-statement-criticising-china-over-hong-kong-diplomats-say-2021-04-16/

Hungary blocks EU statement criticising China over Hong Kong, diplomats say

Hungary has blocked a European Union statement criticising China's new security law in Hong Kong, two diplomats said, in a move likely to undermine efforts to confront Beijing's curbing of freedoms in the former British colony.

The EU, which aims to support Britain and the United States in upholding human rights in Hong Kong, was due to make its statement on Monday at a meeting of EU foreign ministers, but failed to win the necessary agreement from all 27 EU states.

"Hungary's argument was that the EU already has too many issues with China," a senior EU diplomat told Reuters. A second senior diplomat confirmed the blockage and Hungary's position. An EU official said the statement had been withdrawn from the EU's approval process.

China and the EU imposed tit-for-tat sanctions over Western accusations of human rights abuses in Xinjiang on March 22.

Hungarian diplomats in Brussels were not immediately available for comment. Budapest reluctantly supported the EU sanctions last month, calling them "pointless", and hosted China's defence minister for an official visit days after the EU sanctions decision.

Hungary is a large recipient of Chinese investment. In the past both Hungary and Greece, where China's COSCO Shipping has a majority stake in Greece's largest port, have blocked EU statements on China.

Beijing's top representative in Hong Kong this week warned foreign powers that they would be taught a lesson if they tried to interfere in China's management of the global financial hub, as tensions escalated between China and Western governments over the city.

The West says the new Hong Kong security law breaks a promise to maintain a high degree of autonomy for the city since its 1997 return to Chinese rule. China's supporters say the law has restored order following mass anti-government and anti-China protests in 2019.

The impasse is the latest blow to the EU's credentials as a defender of human rights, one of the diplomats said, and raises questions about the economically powerful EU's "soft power" that relies on inspiring countries to follow its example by outlawing the death penalty and upholding press freedoms.

It also underscores the EU's challenge in balancing business ties with China, its second-largest trade partner, and its ability to speak out against Chinese government crackdowns in Hong Kong, on human rights lawyers since 2015 and on Muslim Uighurs in northwestern China.