Game of Thrones begins....

[The Brain]

It's not clear to me that katmai the dragon would be a superior weapon of war.

[Habbaku]

Because dragons are a purely offensive weapon and cannot hold territory.

westeros was conquered with three dragons and 1,600-3,000 men. dani has had more than that for awhile. in the books, there's lots of discussion about how the dragons aren't yet fully grown. this suggests the dragons don't have the full strength of aegon's dragons.

aegonstartedtheconquestwithroughlysixteenhundredtroopsbuthedidnotendtheconquestwiththatmany. hehadwellovertenthousandbythetimetheconquestwasoverwiththankstovariouslordsswearingfealtytohim.

[Martinus]

I have a feeling many people do not really understand what "deus ex machina" means.

If someone is saved by a third party that has been telegraphed for weeks, that's empathically not what "deus ex machina" is. For a rescue to count as "deus ex machina" it must be unexpected and abrupt. Knights of the Vale showing up to help after 3 episodes of being referenced is not that.

[Berkut]

The overall arc is presumably driven by Martin (I hope anyway), but the details of execution are mostly very unimaginative, if usually extremely well executed.

Martin's guidance over the show has been really limited the last two years, from what I have gleaned by public statements and the like.  And the last episode he wrote was back in season 4.  I am sure they still consult with him every now and then, but he has publicly and repeatedly stated that the two stories are different beasts at this point.

I gotta think the overall arc hasn't really shifted though from the story he wants to tell.

Like I don't think the books are going to end up in a completely different place than the show, even if they both get there rather differently.

[Razgovory]

The overall arc is presumably driven by Martin (I hope anyway), but the details of execution are mostly very unimaginative, if usually extremely well executed.

Martin's guidance over the show has been really limited the last two years, from what I have gleaned by public statements and the like.  And the last episode he wrote was back in season 4.  I am sure they still consult with him every now and then, but he has publicly and repeatedly stated that the two stories are different beasts at this point.

Yeah, one will end.

[Admiral Yi]

I have a feeling many people do not really understand what "deus ex machina" means.

If someone is saved by a third party that has been telegraphed for weeks, that's empathically not what "deus ex machina" is. For a rescue to count as "deus ex machina" it must be unexpected and abrupt. Knights of the Vale showing up to help after 3 episodes of being referenced is not that.

I have a feeling at least one person does not really understand what "many" means.

[Valmy]

The overall arc is presumably driven by Martin (I hope anyway), but the details of execution are mostly very unimaginative, if usually extremely well executed.

Martin's guidance over the show has been really limited the last two years, from what I have gleaned by public statements and the like.  And the last episode he wrote was back in season 4.  I am sure they still consult with him every now and then, but he has publicly and repeatedly stated that the two stories are different beasts at this point.

Yeah, one will end.

No! Just two books to go. HE CAN DO IT.

[Habbaku]

I gotta think the overall arc hasn't really shifted though from the story he wants to tell.

Like I don't think the books are going to end up in a completely different place than the show, even if they both get there rather differently.

I think that while the major events might well end up the same or very similar, the way that the story approaches those major events is of huge importance.  The heavy modification of Septon Meribald into Brother Ray, for instance, shifts the anti-war tone quite a bit. 

They did, fortunately, maintain some of the anti-fantasy tropeness of the overall story by showing how bloody and chaotic the battle was at Winterfell, however.  I greatly appreciated that they didn't just make it into a glorious victory, even if the Rohirrim saved the day at the end.

[Berkut]

I have a feeling many people do not really understand what "deus ex machina" means.

If someone is saved by a third party that has been telegraphed for weeks, that's empathically not what "deus ex machina" is. For a rescue to count as "deus ex machina" it must be unexpected and abrupt. Knights of the Vale showing up to help after 3 episodes of being referenced is not that.

It certainly is, since they show up at the last moment to solve an otherwise unsolveable problem.

And they have not been referenced as being on their way at all, indeed, the only reference is that they would NOT be coming, because Sansa refused them. We all know that was bullshit because as usual the writers don't even do THAT well.

But this is classic deus ex. Jon and friends are hemmed in, about to die, nothing can save them, OH WAIT HERE COMES THE KNIGHTS AT EXACTLY THE RIGHT MOMENT TO SAVE THEM FROM THEIR STUPID!

Yeah, the writers completely failed to actually create the tension they were trying to create with as little effort as possible, but that is because they kind of suck at that, not because it was something other than shitty writing.

If Jon knew the Knights were coming, why in the world did he attack at that time? That makes him even more stupid.

[Phillip V]

What will Littlefinger demand of Sansa next episode:  sex and/or marriage?

[Berkut]

I gotta think the overall arc hasn't really shifted though from the story he wants to tell.

Like I don't think the books are going to end up in a completely different place than the show, even if they both get there rather differently.

I think that while the major events might well end up the same or very similar, the way that the story approaches those major events is of huge importance.  The heavy modification of Septon Meribald into Brother Ray, for instance, shifts the anti-war tone quite a bit. 

They did, fortunately, maintain some of the anti-fantasy tropeness of the overall story by showing how bloody and chaotic the battle was at Winterfell, however.  I greatly appreciated that they didn't just make it into a glorious victory, even if the Rohirrim saved the day at the end.

True - I actually liked that part of it quite a bit. It was very "SPR"ish in its portrayal of some really brutal fighting. Nothing noble or admirable about it, just plain butchery.

[Habbaku]

What does it matter what Littlefinger would demand?  The Northern armies are victorious thanks to him, but little more.  Unless he is going to suddenly flex his muscles and have the Knights of the Vale occupy Winterfell, what can he do?  Sansa has the power in their relationship.

I think it's possible she will marry the sickly heir to the Vale, however.  That would cement her power over both realms and side-step Littlefinger.

[Berkut]

What will Littlefinger demand of Sansa next episode:  sex and/or marriage?

At least the first, I suspect.

I am hoping that Sansa has finally reached the end of her arc though, and she will pretty much be all "Yeah, thanks for the help, much appreciated. But you know, I suspect that Robert likes me quite a bit more than he likes you, so how about you just fuck off? What are you going to do about it - go to the Knights and tell them I wouldn't put out? Also, I wonder...how much do the Knights actually *like* you anyway? Shall we find out?"

Which would trigger a very satisfying cold war between her and Littlefinger, which would be fun.

[LaCroix]

aegonstartedtheconquestwithroughlysixteenhundredtroopsbuthedidnotendtheconquestwiththatmany. hehadwellovertenthousandbythetimetheconquestwasoverwiththankstovariouslordsswearingfealtytohim.

I know

[Razgovory]

I have a feeling many people do not really understand what "deus ex machina" means.

If someone is saved by a third party that has been telegraphed for weeks, that's empathically not what "deus ex machina" is. For a rescue to count as "deus ex machina" it must be unexpected and abrupt. Knights of the Vale showing up to help after 3 episodes of being referenced is not that.

It certainly is, since they show up at the last moment to solve an otherwise unsolveable problem.

And they have not been referenced as being on their way at all, indeed, the only reference is that they would NOT be coming, because Sansa refused them. We all know that was bullshit because as usual the writers don't even do THAT well.

But this is classic deus ex. Jon and friends are hemmed in, about to die, nothing can save them, OH WAIT HERE COMES THE KNIGHTS AT EXACTLY THE RIGHT MOMENT TO SAVE THEM FROM THEIR STUPID!

Yeah, the writers completely failed to actually create the tension they were trying to create with as little effort as possible, but that is because they kind of suck at that, not because it was something other than shitty writing.

If Jon knew the Knights were coming, why in the world did he attack at that time? That makes him even more stupid.

No, it isn't.  Marty's right, you were to busy looking for "non-tribal" information to maintain your "non-tribe" to realize it.  A "classic deus ex machina" would have a god appear to fix things cause that's what it refers to.  Having a military unit that was referenced several times appearing unexpectedly on the battlefield does not qualify.