School bully gets what he deserves

[Malthus]

Obviously. Schools can't celebrate children fighting.

I was always amazed in school how the authorities seemed to consistently punish the kid who was provoked but leave the trouble makers to raise more hell untouched.

If a bully is going around provoking fights he probably should be punished also yes?

Yeah, but that is usually because it is the kid responding who is actually seen, while the instigator is not seen. So you end up with one kid who *certainly* did something wrong, and another kid who you only have the word of someone else that they did something wrong.

This is a bullshit excuse though - it basically happens, IMO, because the adults don't want to go to the effort of actually figuring out what happened. That would involve actually talking to multiple kids to sort out what really happened. Too much bother. So they just punish the kid they KNOW did something wrong.

Although this could be changing. Certainly one thing in my kids elementary school that I have been really impressed with is how seriously the principals and teachers take bullying. It is absolutely not tolerated, and they seem to put significant resources into making that clear to the students and parents, and from what I can tell, it actually seems to have worked. Interesting to see if it holds true when my son goes off to middle school next year.

Yeah, that is something I'll be looking for too. In my day as a schoolkid, it was more of a wild west attitude - if you got beat, you were expected to suck it up, and if you complained about it kids and teachers alike held you in low esteem.

[Warspite]

Obviously. Schools can't celebrate children fighting.

I was always amazed in school how the authorities seemed to consistently punish the kid who was provoked but leave the trouble makers to raise more hell untouched.

If a bully is going around provoking fights he probably should be punished also yes?

I remember the two times I stood up to bullying by fighting back, I ended up with a three-hour headmaster's detention on both occasions. But then we were endlessly lectured by teachers on how there was no place for bullying in a school.

The conclusion I drew is that it was better to take the odd gut-punch then to get suspended from school.

[Razgovory]

Obviously. Schools can't celebrate children fighting.

I was always amazed in school how the authorities seemed to consistently punish the kid who was provoked but leave the trouble makers to raise more hell untouched.

If a bully is going around provoking fights he probably should be punished also yes?

I remember the two times I stood up to bullying by fighting back, I ended up with a three-hour headmaster's detention on both occasions. But then we were endlessly lectured by teachers on how there was no place for bullying in a school.

The conclusion I drew is that it was better to take the odd gut-punch then to get suspended from school.

Yeah, I thought this too.  Then some kid broke my fucking arm.  I wish I was smarter then and stood up to the bullies.  I also wish I had the courage to tell the teachers they were incompetent fucks.

[grumbler]

I wasn't talking specifically about this case.

In general, people who instigate fights do so by engaging in violence.  Schools, like society at large, certainly frown more on violence than verbal bullying, but when we talk about bullying, we generally aren't talking about verbal bullying. 

[grumbler]

I remember the two times I stood up to bullying by fighting back, I ended up with a three-hour headmaster's detention on both occasions. But then we were endlessly lectured by teachers on how there was no place for bullying in a school.

The conclusion I drew is that it was better to take the odd gut-punch then to get suspended from school.

It depends.  If the bullying is pretty much a one-off thing, then it probably is better to gut it out.  If it is repeated, though, you are probably better-off getting the suspension than taking the abuse long-term.

[grumbler]

Obviously. Schools can't celebrate children fighting.

I was always amazed in school how the authorities seemed to consistently punish the kid who was provoked but leave the trouble makers to raise more hell untouched.

If a bully is going around provoking fights he probably should be punished also yes?

I remember the two times I stood up to bullying by fighting back, I ended up with a three-hour headmaster's detention on both occasions. But then we were endlessly lectured by teachers on how there was no place for bullying in a school.

The conclusion I drew is that it was better to take the odd gut-punch then to get suspended from school.

Yeah, I thought this too.  Then some kid broke my fucking arm.  I wish I was smarter then and stood up to the bullies.  I also wish I had the courage to tell the teachers they were incompetent fucks.

And I wish I could always tell a story that would one-up every story anyone tells on this forum. 

[grumbler]

Yeah, that is something I'll be looking for too. In my day as a schoolkid, it was more of a wild west attitude - if you got beat, you were expected to suck it up, and if you complained about it kids and teachers alike held you in low esteem.

There have been advantages to all the "pussy parents" willing to sue at the drop of a hat, and one of them is that schools are expected to be a lot better at stopping bullying and abuse.  The old "boys will be boys and girls will be girls" attitude seems to me to be pretty much gone.

[Warspite]

Yeah, that is something I'll be looking for too. In my day as a schoolkid, it was more of a wild west attitude - if you got beat, you were expected to suck it up, and if you complained about it kids and teachers alike held you in low esteem.

There have been advantages to all the "pussy parents" willing to sue at the drop of a hat, and one of them is that schools are expected to be a lot better at stopping bullying and abuse.  The old "boys will be boys and girls will be girls" attitude seems to me to be pretty much gone.

All my harsh, arbitrary mistreatment at school did was give me a victim complex.

[viper37]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6e9_1300102958

A school bully's victimn finally cracks, gives his tormentor his due 

And is sent home for his effort while the bully goes free

V

that's the problem with bullying in schools.  Teachers&directors penalize the victimes, not the tormentors.

[Eddie Teach]

I got bullied a fair amount in 6th and 7th grade but then started fighting back and got suspended several times in 7th and 8th grade. By high school people mostly left me alone.

[Razgovory]

And I wish I could always tell a story that would one-up every story anyone tells on this forum. 
[/quote]

It's shame you can't.  I guess you lived a boring life.


GOD DAMMIT.

[Malthus]

Yeah, that is something I'll be looking for too. In my day as a schoolkid, it was more of a wild west attitude - if you got beat, you were expected to suck it up, and if you complained about it kids and teachers alike held you in low esteem.

There have been advantages to all the "pussy parents" willing to sue at the drop of a hat, and one of them is that schools are expected to be a lot better at stopping bullying and abuse.  The old "boys will be boys and girls will be girls" attitude seems to me to be pretty much gone.

Heh, true. Plaintiff-side lawyers, to the rescue! 

On another note - somewhat counterintuitively (in that parents usually go on about how much better things were when they were kids) I have found the teachers I have dealt with for kindergarden uniformly excellent - they clearly explained the pedogogical purposes for their lesson plans and seemed to just have a grip on things, and the kids actually seem to want to be there. Way I remember kindergarden (albeit memory is spotty) it was more like a zoo/jail.

[The Brain]

Which was it? Zoo or jail?

[Slargos]

Obviously. Schools can't celebrate children fighting.

I was always amazed in school how the authorities seemed to consistently punish the kid who was provoked but leave the trouble makers to raise more hell untouched.

If a bully is going around provoking fights he probably should be punished also yes?

I remember the two times I stood up to bullying by fighting back, I ended up with a three-hour headmaster's detention on both occasions. But then we were endlessly lectured by teachers on how there was no place for bullying in a school.

The conclusion I drew is that it was better to take the odd gut-punch then to get suspended from school.

Yeah, I thought this too.  Then some kid broke my fucking arm.  I wish I was smarter then and stood up to the bullies.  I also wish I had the courage to tell the teachers they were incompetent fucks.

And I wish I could always tell a story that would one-up every story anyone tells on this forum. 

Harassing the crippled kids now? Were you the bully growing up, or did getting bullied turn you into this mean spirited grumpy fucker?

More importantly, when you first carved these stories into cave walls, did your contemporaries consider it graffiti or was it considered a valid form of artistic expression?

[merithyn]

I've had to deal with bullying with my kids on both sides of the coin.

As a package-deal, Carter & Jak were rarely bullied in elementary school, though they could - and often did - terrorize some of the socially weaker kids in elementary school. They quickly outgrew this, however, when their younger brother was the victim of a bully. Their response to the bully? Though the bully was quite a bit bigger than either boy, they scared him so badly that I was called to the school for a parent conference. End result: When the conversation was over - and all three of my boys were called in to talk about things - I was apologized to and no one was suspended. (Not even the bully, though he never bothered any of my kids again.)

When we moved downstate, Jak was bullied by a boy almost from the first day. After a few months of this, in which he never mentioned anything to me about it, the boy walked up to Jak in P.E. and punched Jak in the face. Jak didn't respond, the boy walked away, and then came back to take another swing. Jak picked the boy up, threw him down the bleachers, and proceeded to choke the shit out of the kid. End result: Jak received a one-day suspension and the other boy received a three-day suspension. I took Jak out to lunch and for ice cream, as I felt he'd done exactly what needed to have been done.

Jeremy was bullied by several boys during his seventh-grade year during Cross Country. This was while I worked at the school, so I was privy to the conversations going on about all of this. The kids were throwing sticks, rocks, and clumps of dirt at Jeremy and a few other kids. Jeremy ignored them completely, and went about his business. One of the other kids - a 6th-grade girl - went home in tears, and her parents showed up at the school pretty upset. End result: No suspensions, no missed cross country (they were the school's best chance at a State bid), nothing. A "don't do that anymore" talking to from the principal with their parents in the room. Didn't do squat to stop the bullying, so Carter & Jak talked to a couple of the boys' older brothers and basically warned them that they were going to go to the Middle School to kick the boys' asses if it didn't stop. The boys' older brothers put a stop to things.

Riley was a bully in elementary school. When she decided she didn't like someone, she made it her mission to make that person's life a living hell. At one point, one little girl refused to go to school for nearly a week because Riley had made things so awful for her, to the point of kicking the girl during P.E. leaving a softball-sized bruise on her thigh. I was called to the school, where I had to sit and watch the girl and her mother both tear up as the described all of the things my daughter had done to this child. End result:  I was furious when the Principal refused to suspend Riley, so I pulled her out for three days, telling the other girl's mother that her daughter had a right to go to school without having to worry about if Riley were going to terrorize her. Riley received one of the few spankings of her life, was grounded to her room for 24 hours, and she and I had a very long talk about what her actions had done to the other girl. I then let her brothers know what she'd done, and they lit into her. Riley was allowed to go back to school (by me) after three days out, and she never bothered the girl again. In fact, Riley even invited the girl to a party she held a couple of months later. Ri never liked the other girl, but she never bullied her again.

By the way, in the six schools in three different school districts that my children have been in, they have all had a zero-tolerance for bullying policy in place. One - the Middle School - had even produced and made a video about ending bullying in the schools. It made little difference in their reaction to the bullying that took place. We certainly didn't receive a zero-tolerance reaction.