School bully gets what he deserves

[Ed Anger]

I'd drag Mart behind a truck.

[merithyn]

I don't actually agree - I think this is just the standard idea that "things were better/worse when I was a kid...".

The variability between locations is likely much more relevant than the variability over time. In other words, it might look better or worse to you compared to when you were a kid, but how do you know that isn't just because you happen to have moved somewhere where it is better or worse, as opposed to things getting worse over time?

I would agree with this if it weren't for the online stuff that's now going on. The bullying permeates every aspect of a child's life now, which wasn't happening when I was a child. Of course, I think you and I are looking at two different things. Your kids are still young enough that you're seeing this through an elementary school lens, whereas mine are in middle school and high school, where things have stepped well and truly into the information age. I didn't notice a whole lot of differences in bullying between my childhood and my kids' while they were in elementary school, except that it was at least discussed. Once they got older, it was an entirely new situation.

Bullying is bullshit. It is a socially destructive process where children who do not really understand what they are doing harm one another. It does not need to be "part of growing up" anymore than the occasional kid getting third degree burns is necessary in order to teach kids to not play with gasoline and matches.

There are plenty of ways to teach children about how to interact with one another without the need to harm other children in the process. The idea that we are "pussifying" a generation because the adults decide to stop letting kids beat the shit out of whoever they decide are the social outcasts is idiotic. The only thing it shows is that some people never really grow up, and still think being bigots and bullies is just fine - as long as it is some OTHER group that is the ones selected for their hate.

I am very happy that this has become much more of an issue in US society at least (well, it is here in suburbia New York), and that finally adults are realizing that kids bullying one another is not just "kids being kids" - or rather, it IS kids being kids, but it is incredibly destructive and should not be tolerated. It might be the one positive that came out of Columbine, even though nobody will come right out and say it.

Agreed on all counts.

[Berkut]

I moved around constantly, so was the "new kid" a lot. This resulted in some bullying, but I was generally kind of big for my age, and pretty quickly developed a strategy for dealing with it - basically over-react to the first person screwing with me, and they tend to move along to an easier target.

This strategy backfired when I moved to Steele Elementary in Tucson in 5th grade. First day in the library, some kid came up behind me and did that "fake spit" thing where you blow air at someone, and I turned around and shoved him. This resulted in a challenge at the park after school. I showed up (the last thing you can do is NOT show up for something like that) and as I am walking towards the appointed location for my showdown with Mark, I see this huge group of kids all standing around waiting to watch. Another kid, comes up to me as I am walking over and tells me the kid I am about to fight gets in fights all the time, and never loses.

So yeah, this isn't looking good. But I square up and walk up, and the standard pushing/name calling/whatever ensues.  Eventually I take a swing, and it is on.

Fucking kid was like some kind of amateur boxer or something. He kicked the shit out of me. But I am kind of stupid and stubborn when I get mad, so every time he nails me, I get back up. I get my share in as well, but it is by no means an even fight. Eventually he is telling me to stop, and pretty soon just about everyone is telling me to stop, but yeah, like I said, stupid and stubborn, so I keep getting up and going after him. He actually turned around and tried to walk away after knocking me down for the 3rd? 4th? time, but I got up and tackled him.

Eventually a teacher shows up to see what this big crowd of kids is doing, and everyone takes off. I come to school the next day looking like I got hit by a car, and Mark isn't looking much better. We get called into the principals office separately and then together, but neither of us will admit to anything, so it never really goes anywhere.

Mark wants to be my friend after that, and I play along enough to get him and his buddies to leave me alone, but I still think he was a fucking asshole. I wasn't the first kid he fought with, nor the last. He liked to fight, he was good at it, and he used his reputation to treat kids who would not tolerate getting their asses kicked like complete shit. Him and his friends were contemptible, and I don't think it taught anyone anything good, and plenty bad.

I got pretty good at dealing with bullies, but I wish I had been better at protecting other kids who were bullied. Watching some kid cry as some other kid just fucking humiliates him sucks. I hate bullies.

[Berkut]

Actually, one caveat to my story. You know who I hated a lot more than Mark?

All his asshole posse who went around with him tormenting kids as part of their little "pack" of assholes. Marty wants to talk about pussies? Mark was a bully and a prick, but at least he was willing to put his ass on the line if someone stood up to him. his little friends who just ganged up (and by this I mean verbally, not physically - Mark was the enforcer and could handle any physical confrontation without assistance) on whoever they liked where the real losers. What did this bullying teach them that is so useful? Good thing they were not "pussified"!

I am sure later on in college when they beat the shit out of some fag, Marty and other people who think bullying should be tolerated would be blaming the gay guy for going to some pussy school where he didn't learn how to deal with it...?

[Ed Anger]

Ahh, the bully sycophants. They always amused me. You could always get their goat by calling them a fag.

[Martinus]

LOL looks like my comments struck a nerve with Berkut. 

[Tamas]

In my elementary school there was this strong teacher guy. When two guys were fighting, he took them apart, bitchslapped both, and that was it.

It was a simpler world 

[Berkut]

LOL looks like my comments struck a nerve with Berkut. 

Perhaps. I really do despise bullies, and what is worse than bullies (who, lets be honest, are mostly just kids who do not know any better) are adults who condone and encourage it.

Combined with your well known hypocrisy, your position on bullying is really quite contemptible. It is, sadly, not surprising though.

[derspiess]

I hate to say it, but Mart has a semi-valid point

[grumbler]

Perhaps. I really do despise bullies, and what is worse than bullies (who, lets be honest, are mostly just kids who do not know any better) are adults who condone and encourage it.

Agreed.  People who claim that bullying should be tolerated as good 'character development' training or something should probably understand why listeners conclude that they are pinheads.

Combined with your well known hypocrisy, your position on bullying is really quite contemptible. 

Disagree.  It would be contemptible even if Marti was not a notorious hypocrite.

[Habbaku]

I hate to say it, but Mart has a semi-valid point

That we should beat up fags in school so they learn their proper place in society?  Agreed.

[garbon]

That we should beat up fags in school so they learn their proper place in society?  Agreed.

I don't really get what that would do. School life is so different from real life.

[Habbaku]

That we should beat up fags in school so they learn their proper place in society?  Agreed.

I don't really get what that would do. School life is so different from real life.

It is, and special conditions need to be applied, but I think teaching children that violence in a civil setting isn't acceptable is rather important.

[Slargos]

Bullying is inevitable. No matter what kind of draconian "zero tolerance" policies are enacted, bullying will always exist (not only in schools but also perhaps more importantly in workplaces) as long as we don't invent some sort of behavioural modification chip.

That bullying is a useful way to strengthen the majority group at the expense of the victims is a theory I've seen voiced quite often and I'm not sure it's so easily dismissed without resorting to emotional arguments.

I think it's evident (granted, by way of anecdotal evidence) that bullying will in some cases strengthen the victims (although at what long-term psychological cost?) and in other cases cause life-long trauma or at worst completely destroy them. At the same time it comes off as pretty obnoxious to suggest this would somehow be a condition that should be encouraged in order to create a climate of competitiveness.

[garbon]

It is, and special conditions need to be applied, but I think teaching children that violence in a civil setting isn't acceptable is rather important.

Oh I certainly agree.