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Started by Eddie Teach, March 06, 2011, 09:29:27 AM

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Tamas

Britain not being able to end (win) the war on its own doesn't mean a German victory. There was IMHO zero chance of Stalin not getting involved either on its own accord or -as it happened- Hitler being too uppity to leave the SU alone. And I think there was a near-zero chance of the US not getting involved eventually. Time was 100% on Britain's side so when they decided to make the sacrifice of staying in the war, they decided that war's outcome.

Darth Wagtaros

I'm a few episodes into Vox Machina and liking it.

The new Animaniacs are good too.
PDH!

grumbler

Hitler wouldn't leave the USSR alone.  Attacking it was his entire purpose in going to war.  The war with the UK and France were inconvenient delays in the execution of the master plan.  Expanding his living room to the east was Hitler's ultimate goal.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

crazy canuck

In addition to the points Tamas and Grumbler made, it is important to remember the UK (and the commonwealth) were not alone at the beginning of the war.   France was a match for Germany in terms of numbers at least.  It is a fluke of history that the gamble of going through the Ardennes actually worked.  And really the fact it was tried at all is a bit of a fluke - the plan was to redo the move through Belgium but those plans were found in a plan crash and so the German's went with the gamble.

It is really only with hindsight that we analyze the war with France out. That could not have been within Chamberlain's reasonable contemplation when he went to Munich.

Syt

Heh. M*A*S*H is on Disney+ over here. And of course it's been converted to 16:9.
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Tamas

Quote from: Syt on February 05, 2022, 01:28:38 PM
Heh. M*A*S*H is on Disney+ over here. And of course it's been converted to 16:9.

Wrong war.

Josquius

The Eternals - Sets up something wonderful with John Snow and Robb Stark fighting over a woman named Cercei... But its not to be.
Watched over 2 nights as its just so bloody long.
It's... Aye. Not great. But not quite the worst marvel movie ever. Black widow was worse.
I have to be confused at the ending.
Kingo doesn't lend his power at all. He just didsapears till the end. Not wanting to fight his family OK but he seemed knboard for saving the world - his very familiar faced valet seemed cool with not doing that.
And earlier it was shown the celestials were so big the planet would crack open yet clearly not as he is coming.... And if you're freezing such a huge creature surely the environmental impact on the earth would be apocalyptic?
Oh. And I don't like that it spends so long setting up sequels.
Trying to tie it in with existing marvel stuff like "oh yeah thor was my buddy!" was painful.
I do like the frequent DC references. Unexpected. I wonder if there was any permission involved or its a jibe in some way.
Also really surprised Angelina Jolie survived. It's weird she is in this at all tbh. Seems a bit beneath her. She doesn't act much these days. Wonder why she decided to do a marvel film.
Looking forward to see marvel dig ever deeper below d list into e list comics.
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Valmy

Quote from: Sheilbh on February 03, 2022, 10:58:25 AM
Isn't that bit true, though? My understanding is the UK would absolutely lose the air war if we went to war in 1938 - or is that wrong?

The UK and France did use the time to build up their militaries...the bad news is that Germany used their time far better.

I think going to war in 1938 was the better idea, because the little Entente might have been a viable eastern ally and the Soviets hadn't yet signed their agreement with the Nazis so wouldn't have attacked Czechoslovakia and company from behind like they did with Poland. I get why the British made the decision they did, and the reasons the French went along with it, but I think ultimately waiting did them a big disservice. However, there is also domestic political concerns. The British public might not have been as onboard to fight to keep Germany from annexing some Germans before Germany crossed the red line by invading Czechoslovakia in 1939. So ultimately maybe domestically it was necessary even if I don't think it was the best choice from a strategic point of view.
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Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

The Brain

In a democracy the people is an entity with agency. A poor decision is a poor decision, even if the people effectively made it.
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Darth Wagtaros

The director wanted to end Eternals with the world getting destroyed and the Eternals on their way to the next planet.  Sounds like it'd be a downer.
PDH!

Duque de Bragança

Quote from: grumbler on February 03, 2022, 07:44:18 PM

Czechoslovakia would have fallen eventually, but the Germans would pay a steep price and wouldn't get the Czech arms industry intact.  That could significantly imp[act the events of a year later (especially not M-L Pact).

Seems reasonable.
For some reason, Gamelin believed Czechoslovakia doomed following the Anschluss (Bohemia could be attacked from the South as well I guess).
That, and giving Czechs blueprints of Maginot line-style fortifications, then deserting them shows policy coherence was not very valued.

Crazy_Ivan80

Quote from: crazy canuck on February 05, 2022, 12:44:03 PM
In addition to the points Tamas and Grumbler made, it is important to remember the UK (and the commonwealth) were not alone at the beginning of the war.   France was a match for Germany in terms of numbers at least.  It is a fluke of history that the gamble of going through the Ardennes actually worked.  And really the fact it was tried at all is a bit of a fluke - the plan was to redo the move through Belgium but those plans were found in a plan crash and so the German's went with the gamble.

It is really only with hindsight that we analyze the war with France out. That could not have been within Chamberlain's reasonable contemplation when he went to Munich.

the Belgian government didn't do anything with the plans though. They couldn't believe that Hitler would break Belgium's neutrality....  :rolleyes:

crazy canuck

Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on February 07, 2022, 12:18:10 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 05, 2022, 12:44:03 PM
In addition to the points Tamas and Grumbler made, it is important to remember the UK (and the commonwealth) were not alone at the beginning of the war.   France was a match for Germany in terms of numbers at least.  It is a fluke of history that the gamble of going through the Ardennes actually worked.  And really the fact it was tried at all is a bit of a fluke - the plan was to redo the move through Belgium but those plans were found in a plan crash and so the German's went with the gamble.

It is really only with hindsight that we analyze the war with France out. That could not have been within Chamberlain's reasonable contemplation when he went to Munich.

the Belgian government didn't do anything with the plans though. They couldn't believe that Hitler would break Belgium's neutrality....  :rolleyes:

Yeah, and the war would likely have gone very differently if the Germans knew that and carried out their original plan.  The received wisdom today would be that Munich was a master stroke buying much needed time to hold and then push back the Germans.

Savonarola

Quote from: Valmy on February 06, 2022, 09:46:00 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 03, 2022, 10:58:25 AM
Isn't that bit true, though? My understanding is the UK would absolutely lose the air war if we went to war in 1938 - or is that wrong?

The UK and France did use the time to build up their militaries...the bad news is that Germany used their time far better.

The radar system that the British would deploy had existed in concept at the time of Munich but wouldn't be deployed until afterwards.  Radar was immensely valuable during the Battle of Britain, and the air war would have almost certainly gone much worse for the UK if they had to rely on spotters (and a much smaller air force.)  Of course there might not have been a Battle of Britain if the war had begun in 1938.
In Italy, for thirty years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love, they had five hundred years of democracy and peace—and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock

The Brain

10,000 BC. Mammoth hunters face civilization. I came to this movie with very low expectations, but I think it's pretty great. It moves along at a decent pace, there's exotic locales, and an OK story. A grumpy person could complain about the historical inaccuracies, but that's missing the point of the movie completely IMHO. I've always found the era of the first civilizations fascinating, with the difference between hunter-gatherers, simple farming communities, and the cities of the first God-Kings. The movie evokes the sense of wonder that must have existed in contemporaries who didn't know from history books exactly what did and did not exist when it comes to exotic animals or advanced technology. This would be hard to do if the movie stuck to historical stuff. Many cultures have fanciful legends about founding ancestors, the start of agriculture etc, and seeing the movie as one such legend makes a lot of sense to me, and indeed the movie has the form of a narrated legend (narrated by a legend, thanks Omar Sharif). If I had made the movie I would have made the chick more than just a constant damsel in distress, but that's me.
Women want me. Men want to be with me.