High-Speed Rail in the US: why the hell not

[Martinus]

Anyway, during my time in Brussels I simply LOVED the high speed rail network. 45 minutes to Paris and 80 minutes to London is a fucking dream.

Doesn't it kind of blend things together, though?  It's almost like taking a subway to go from Brooklyn to Bronx.

Food is different and people speak different language.

Then again the same applies to going from Brussels to London, I suppose.

[MadImmortalMan]

We need transporters asap. I want to take my lunch hour in Hong Kong or Dublin. The infrastructure would be so much less clumsy and bulky.

[DGuller]

We need transporters asap. I want to take my lunch hour in Hong Kong or Dublin. The infrastructure would be so much less clumsy and bulky.

I want to take my lunch hour in Paris.  I hear their McDonalds serves beers.

[Ed Anger]

We need transporters asap. I want to take my lunch hour in Hong Kong or Dublin. The infrastructure would be so much less clumsy and bulky.

I want to take my lunch hour in Paris.  I hear their McDonalds serves beers.

They have better fries than the American Mickey D's at least.

[Neil]

We need transporters asap. I want to take my lunch hour in Hong Kong or Dublin. The infrastructure would be so much less clumsy and bulky.

Transfer booths aren't going to happen.  They're immoral.

[jimmy olsen]

We need transporters asap. I want to take my lunch hour in Hong Kong or Dublin. The infrastructure would be so much less clumsy and bulky.

Transfer booths aren't going to happen.  They're immoral.

I have to agree, Star Trek style tranporters are definitely sketchy.

[saskganesh]

The Northeast Corridor is not subsidized, to my knowledge.  It's the parts of Amtrak elsewhere in the country that get the money.

Huh. I did not know that. Actually, I thought Amtrak basically was the Northeast Corridor.

I can go by train from Spokane to Chicago.

http://www.trainweb.com/routes/route_07/rg_7old.htm

Great name for a route.

I looked at that ride for a trip to Chicago, but there were no planes, trains or buses that would take me to Minot from Canada. Renting a car for 4 hour drive, parking it for a few days and then driving it back to SK would have much more than the train fare. So no dice.

anyhow, compared to VIA, Amtrack is an excellent system.

[Syt]

For lots of Americans, there aren't distances too long for a car.  The year that Origins was in Fort Worth TX, I drove there from central WV without a second thought.  About 1100 hundred miles IIRC, but it was all 4-lane (or more), and I was able to make the drive in 1 admittedly long day.  And I know plenty of people who have driven on trips longer than that, though it's about the limit of what you can do in 1 day (unless you are travelling with someone else and can switch drivers).

Isn't that mind numbingly dull, though? I mean all those straight roads, built for fast driving ... but not being allowed to?

[DGuller]

For lots of Americans, there aren't distances too long for a car.  The year that Origins was in Fort Worth TX, I drove there from central WV without a second thought.  About 1100 hundred miles IIRC, but it was all 4-lane (or more), and I was able to make the drive in 1 admittedly long day.  And I know plenty of people who have driven on trips longer than that, though it's about the limit of what you can do in 1 day (unless you are travelling with someone else and can switch drivers).

Isn't that mind numbingly dull, though? I mean all those straight roads, built for fast driving ... but not being allowed to?

IMO, it is quite dull.  You've got not scenery to look at, you're just at a runway that never ends, and curves only enough to keep you awake.  Local highways are more exciting, but have lower speed limits, and far more dangerous design, though.

[Alatriste]

We need transporters asap. I want to take my lunch hour in Hong Kong or Dublin. The infrastructure would be so much less clumsy and bulky.

I want to take my lunch hour in Paris.  I hear their McDonalds serves beers.

Don't know about Paris, but in Spain they certainly do

Regarding the number of vehicles in Spain, I have made some googling. According to the most recent statistics I found the numbers are about 22,000,000 cars (making 0.48 cars per capita), 2,500,000 motorcycles and 5,500,000 trucks, vans and buses.

[citizen k]

Study: Amtrak loss comes to $32 per passenger
By KEVIN FREKING, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON – U.S. taxpayers spent about $32 subsidizing the cost of the typical Amtrak passenger in 2008, about four times the rail operator's estimate, according to a private study.

Amtrak operates a nationwide rail network, serving more than 500 destinations in 46 states. Forty-one of Amtrak's 44 routes lost money in 2008, said the study by Subsidyscope, an arm of the Pew Charitable Trusts.

Stephen Van Beek, president of the Eno Transportation Foundation, a think tank, said the analysis could help guide decisions on how to spend $8 billion set aside for high-speed and intercity rail in a $787 billion economic stimulus bill. Rail planners may decide that spending the funds on high-speed rail makes more sense than slower intercity rail, which the Amtrak numbers show need higher subsidies.

Subsidyscope says its review counted certain capital expenses that Amtrak doesn't consider when calculating the financial performance of its routes, namely wear and tear on equipment, or depreciation.

Leading the list was the train traveling between San Antonio and Los Angeles — the Sunset Limited — which lost $462 per passenger. Taxpayers subsidize the losses to keep the passenger train service running.

The Northeast corridor has the highest passenger volume of any Amtrak route, greatly enhancing efficiency. The corridor's high-speed Acela Express made a profit of about $41 per passenger. The more heavily utilized Northeast Regional lost almost $5 per passenger.

Passenger rail systems throughout the world lose money and require government subsidies to cover operating expenses.

Marcus Peacock, project director for Subsidyscope, said his group's analysis should lead to more scrutiny for the Amtrak routes that are losing the most money.

Van Beek cautioned against holding passenger rail service to a higher standard than other forms of transportation.

"Let's not hold rail up and say it needs to make money when highways don't make money, transit doesn't make money and a lot of small airports don't make money and they all get subsidies," Van Beek said.

The Government Accountability Office had previously said the omission of depreciation substantially understates the capital expenses associated with Amtrak's routes.

Amtrak officials said they're working with the Transportation Department to come up with a fair way to determine capital expenses but the method used in the report unfairly burden routes whose equipment was sold and then leased back.

[Duque de Bragança]

Well, if you are on a train you can read a book, play a game on your laptop, have a gin and tonic 

Btw, given the high densities of the UK and relative small size, a high-speed network would work wonders there. Yet, nothing but a link to Europe by the Tunnel. Why ? Maggie's legacy?

Probably best not to get me started on that. I would be delighted to see the construction of such a network. But, for some reason, there seems little chance of it happening 

British policy idiosyncrasies are best left alone 

[Duque de Bragança]

We need transporters asap. I want to take my lunch hour in Hong Kong or Dublin. The infrastructure would be so much less clumsy and bulky.

I want to take my lunch hour in Paris.  I hear their McDonalds serves beers.

Only if you order "food" as well;) and that's 1664 which got its alcohol content lowered recently from 5.9 % to 5.2 %

[Martinus]

We need transporters asap. I want to take my lunch hour in Hong Kong or Dublin. The infrastructure would be so much less clumsy and bulky.

Transfer booths aren't going to happen.  They're immoral.

Too much Sister Miriam Godwinson.

[Duque de Bragança]

Medium range niche i.e up to 1000 km (bit more than 3 hours) yes but IF the line is all high speed not like Germany where there aren't that many high speed lines and when there is it's not 300 kph cruise speed.
FYI, the ICE has its highest cruise speed in France, between Lorraine and Île-de-France whereas in the German part it only travels at  200 kph (not considered as high speed in France) between Frankfurt and Mannheim during 40 min or so.

The "problem" in Germany is that it is much more poly-centric than France. In France, building a system where all trains go to Paris and may bypass smaller cities works. In Germany, that would never work because the regional politicians want that the train stops in their town. The best example for this is the high-speed track between Cologne and Frankfurt. The train goes up to 300 kph on that, but stops at some smallish town called Montabaur at roughly half the distance. That's because that town is in Rhineland-Palatinate which happens to be a different federal state than the ones Cologne and Frankfurt are in. So the Rhineland-Palatinatian politicians wanted a stop in their state. Totally pointless if you ask me, but that's how federalism in Germany works. But that train is so fast that Lufthansa no longer flies from Frankfurt to Cologne and rather gives that train a flight number for "connecting flights" from Frankfurt to Cologne.

Not all trains go through Paris fortunately. You can still travel 1067 km or so of high-speed line from Calais to Marseille without stopping in dowtown Paris. Two stops in the hubs as Valdemar mentioned though (airport and Eurodisney).
Why would one go to Marseille is another matter

I agree naturally with the poly-centric nature of Germany but yet there aren't that many NEW REAL high-speed lines (Hochgeschwindigkeitslinien if memory serves), the main ones are the one between Hannover and Berlin, the one you mention (best of all?) and some smaller ones like between München and Nürnberg. There are of course some improved classical lines and more building in progress/planned such as between Saarbrücken and Mannheim (right now it's slow for an ICE 100-120 kph to 160 kph on average). Not exactly great high speed if you ask me...

As to regional politicos wanting their stops for their hamlets, it happens in France cf. the stop in the middle of nowhere i.e Lorraine T.G.V far from both Metz and Nancy i.e the typical "beetroot" station. It is supposed to be "provisional" and it is close to some regional airport of very limited use...