Sundering of America

[Lettow77]

I purposely dont mention Texas in Southern secession. While they may well secede, I am fairly convinced it will be a purely texan affair. I'd be delighted if they'd join us, but they are welcome cousins and kin if not direct brothers.

[Grey Fox]

Without Texas you not just fucked but trully fucked 3rd world country like Malawi.

[Lettow77]

Y'all really overstate how ruined the South would be. We wouldent be at all. Oh well- I guess y'all will have to wait and see, hm?

edit: Your right that with Texas we'd be better off, but that doesnt seem very fair, as we'd be living off the Texan trough. They are welcome to be a free and independent land of excess and riches by themselves, though. I'd be happy to visit. I have a huge soft spot for Texas. 

[KRonn]

Y'all really overstate how ruined the South would be. We wouldent be at all. Oh well- I guess y'all will have to wait and see, hm?

Heh, I think the rest of the US would also be quite a bit poorer losing the economy of the states that left. So we'd have poorer seceding states, regions and the remaining US all around, I'd have to say. But it's probably likely a state or region could go its own way, though poorer. Much of the trade and business would probably continue as before, since the demand for goods or resources would still be there, but trade laws/rules would be changed.

[Lettow77]

Ideally, the South would be unburdened by a much lighter tax load, and the North would no longer have to pour money into a net drain, so that both regions would prosper.

Edit: And there is no reason the South couldn't join NAFTA, and approach something approaching duty-free tradde.

[Queequeg]

Y'all really overstate how ruined the South would be. We wouldent be at all. Oh well- I guess y'all will have to wait and see, hm?

You have less a chance of becoming independent than Al Qaeda does of establishing a territorially stable, flourishing totalitarian Caliphate encompassing the entirety of dar al-Islam. 

[Lettow77]

Thanks Queequeg. Hey, did you know all the Russians are dying out, and their military is being infiltrated by muslims?

But in all honesty, every year that the russian population dwindles is a year the world is made a little better. Russia is evil.

[The Brain]

Ironically the only guy who shares your vision of a sundered America is a deranged Russian professor.

[Queequeg]

Thanks Queequeg. Hey, did you know all the Russians are dying out, and their military is being infiltrated by muslims?

But in all honesty, every year that the russian population dwindles is a year the world is made a little better. Russia is evil.

You're a deranged little man, you do know that, right?  Somehow you managed to turn me look like some standard of sanity and objectivity.   

[Lettow77]

There's nothing insane about wishing genocide upon the russians. It would be nice if we could get their borders to say, old muscovy.

[Barrister]

Edit: And there is no reason the South couldn't join NAFTA, and approach something approaching duty-free tradde.

This is a topic that has some up quite frequently in discussing Quebec independence.

An independent Quebec (or CSA, or wherever) has no ability to join NAFTA as a right.  It would have to negotiate entrance with the other signatories.  As part of such negotiations the other parties might well be able to demand concessions of one sort or another.

Duty-free trade is also a hell of a lot less efficient than being within the same country.  Would a CSA be able to negotiate a customs union?  Doubtful.  So suddenly you have long delays at every border crossing, the impeding North-South trade.  There's also monetary policy.  I see no reason the Federal Reserve would allow the CSA any say in setting monetary policy/interest rates.  So The CSA could follow the lead of such strong economies as Ecuador, El Salvador and Panama and just adopt the US dollar without any say in monetary policy, or you'd have to create a new currency and lose the advantage of having the world's most widely-used currency.

You'd get to take your share of the National Debt.  I wouldn't count on having such low taxes after that happens.

You might get ownership of military bases within the new CSA, but otherwise you're going to have to rebuild your military from scratch - an expensive proposition.  Membership in NATO and NORAD would also have to be negotiated from scratch.  I have my doubts the CSA would be invited to join a G8 equivalent.

[Queequeg]

There's nothing insane about wishing genocide upon the russians. It would be nice if we could get their borders to say, old muscovy.

If the Nazis couldn't do it, you couldn't do it, as your beloved "southern warrior" lost against an enemy far less brutal or innovative than the Nazis. 

[Lettow77]

 The South would be too big and too large to ignore. In NATO in particular, our removal would be a big chunk of NATO's largest participator- the Europeans if nothing else would be anxious to get us in, as would the yankees, as it would prevent their having to expand their military.

Although, whether we should join NATO is another matter.

[Lettow77]

Oh, I never suggested a crusade against russia. I am happy to let them off themselves in suicides and alcohol poisoning.

[Queequeg]

The South would be too big and too large to ignore. In NATO in particular, our removal would be a big chunk of NATO's largest participator- the Europeans if nothing else would be anxious to get us in, as would the yankees, as it would prevent their having to expand their military.

Didn't you just say it would be the size of Australia? Plenty of people ignore Australia.

Besides, what do you think people think of the South? If you think 'Yankees' have a low opinion of Dixie, try going to Europe, where the sum total of their understanding of your "culture" revolves around centuries of racial oppression and belligerent ignorance.  People don't like you.