Israel-Hamas War 2023

[Razgovory]

I didn't say that it requires use of deadly force.  The Palestinians can act.  They have agency.  They are not just a passive group.

Other than the use of deadly force by terrorists, can you give an example of where Palestinians have the sort of agency you are describing?

They seem quite adroit in propaganda, they've gotten plenty of supporters among the nations of the world.

[OttoVonBismarck]

I will say this--with Biden abstaining today and letting this shameful UNSC resolution be issued against Israel, he has lost my vote. And since I don't believe in voting third party, I guess that means I will be a reluctant Trump voter. He has time to win me back, but if Biden believes he can kow tow to the Hamas wing of the party (e.g. extreme bigots like Rashida Tlaib and Ilhan Omar) he must be made to pay a price.

Obviously my one vote doesn't matter in a state almost certain to vote for Biden anyway.

[OttoVonBismarck]

The White House suggests Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is trying to manufacture a crisis in US-Israel ties after canceling plans to send an Israeli delegation to Washington over the Biden administration's decision to allow the adoption of a UN Security Council resolution calling for an immediate Gaza ceasefire and hostage release.

Netanyahu said the US abstention marked a divergence from Washington's policy linking a ceasefire to Hamas releasing the hostages it abducted on October 7, but US officials asserted that this wasn't their interpretation of the resolution and that their position in favor of that conditionality has not changed.

"It seems like the Prime Minister's Office is choosing to create a perception of daylight here when they don't need to do that," White House National Security Council John Kirby said in a press briefing.

Amazingly duplicitous bullshit from Biden's administration. His behavior is entirely craven nonsense to appeal to a craven, toxic left wing of his own party. Biden is choosing to stand with Muslim activist groups in America who 100% support terrorism and extremism and murder of Jews in order to get votes. One of the most feckless decisions by any American President, he has no room to say someone is pandering to domestic politics, he is pandering to Muslim terrorists for votes. I hope Trump obliterates him in November.

[garbon]

So much froth over a UN vote. Great that we have voters on both sides who will vote in US elections based on a neverending conflict in the Middle East...

[OttoVonBismarck]

It is more than just a UN vote, it shows where Biden's priorities lie--and it is with extremist Muslim terrorist supporting left wingers like Rashida Tlaib and Ilhan Omar because he is afraid of the voters they represent. I don't vote for cowards who stand with terrorists for votes.

[grumbler]

I was wondering when Otto would find the excuse, no matter how flimsy, that would allow him to openly support Trump without looking like a chump. 

Everyone wins  as a result of the UNSC resolution, should a way be found to actually implement it: Palestinians and most Israelis will be glad to see the killing of civilians stop, Netanyahu gets to stop a war that grew more unsavory by the day while pretending that it is only force majeure that stops him, and Otto gets to go back to MAGAland while pretending that only force majeure drove him there.

[Valmy]

I don't know if abstaining from one toothless UN vote is quite the Carte Blanche for terrorism you think it is.

[HVC]

Guess Otto hates Arabs more then he hates Russians 

[grumbler]

It is more than just a UN vote, it shows where Biden's priorities lie--and it is with extremist Muslim terrorist supporting left wingers like Rashida Tlaib and Ilhan Omar because he is afraid of the voters they represent. I don't vote for cowards who stand with terrorists for votes.

[OttoVonBismarck]

It is more than just a UN vote, it shows where Biden's priorities lie--and it is with extremist Muslim terrorist supporting left wingers like Rashida Tlaib and Ilhan Omar because he is afraid of the voters they represent. I don't vote for cowards who stand with terrorists for votes.

That's how Jihadi Joe Biden will look when he is being rolled out of the White House next January.

[Admiral Yi]

Can anyone tell me what is the difference between this resolution and the one the US sponsored a few days ago?

[Valmy]

Can anyone tell me what is the difference between this resolution and the one the US sponsored a few days ago?

Fundamentally they do seem the same 

Cease fire plus release of hostages. Maybe the difference was the order of events?

[OttoVonBismarck]

Five American citizens are held hostage still and the Biden administration has betrayed them with allowing a UNSC resolution to pass that does not make a ceasefire conditional on their release. Their all but certain deaths are entirely at Biden's feet now.

[Valmy]

Five American citizens are held hostage still and the Biden administration has betrayed them with allowing a UNSC resolution to pass that does not make a ceasefire conditional on their release. Their all but certain deaths are entirely at Biden's feet now.

Yeah well...we'll see. I don't know if Hamas is that obedient to the UNSC. I don't think this vote changes anything.

[Admiral Yi]

Yeah well...we'll see. I don't know if Hamas is that obedient to the UNSC. I don't think this vote changes anything.

I agree with Otto that's a much different signal than the previous proposal.  The previous one said if Hamas wants nice things done to them they have to do nice things to others. 

I of course disagree with him about the optimal response of private citizens.