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2024 US Presidential Elections Megathread

Started by Syt, May 25, 2023, 02:23:01 AM

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Sophie Scholl

#2445
October 01, 2024, 08:14:52 PM
Vance is running circles around Walz so far. Ouch.  :(
"Everything that brought you here -- all the things that made you a prisoner of past sins -- they are gone. Forever and for good. So let the past go... and live."

"Somebody, after all, had to make a start. What we wrote and said is also believed by many others. They just don't dare express themselves as we did."

Sophie Scholl

#2446
October 01, 2024, 08:33:35 PM
Walz recovering while Vance is collapsing a bit. Also, the moderators cut both mics. They are running a remarkably great debate so far.
"Everything that brought you here -- all the things that made you a prisoner of past sins -- they are gone. Forever and for good. So let the past go... and live."

"Somebody, after all, had to make a start. What we wrote and said is also believed by many others. They just don't dare express themselves as we did."

Valmy

#2447
October 01, 2024, 08:49:07 PM
Walz will get this. But he is just a simple country football coach going against a salesman shyster like Vance. Give him a bit.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Sophie Scholl

#2448
October 01, 2024, 09:11:44 PM
...I really, really wish that just what the Vice President does and what power(s) they have would be brought up. Vance (and Trump and so many more) seem to think that Vice President is apparently a dictator-esque position to pass anything they want and no one is calling them on the silliness of such claims.
"Everything that brought you here -- all the things that made you a prisoner of past sins -- they are gone. Forever and for good. So let the past go... and live."

"Somebody, after all, had to make a start. What we wrote and said is also believed by many others. They just don't dare express themselves as we did."

DGuller

#2449
October 01, 2024, 09:14:25 PM
Quote from: Sophie Scholl on October 01, 2024, 09:11:44 PM...I really, really wish that just what the Vice President does and what power(s) they have would be brought up. Vance (and Trump and so many more) seem to think that Vice President is apparently a dictator-esque position to pass anything they want and no one is calling them on the silliness of such claims.
It could be a trap, designed to provoke "you know damn well a vice-president isn't doing anything" response.

Sophie Scholl

#2450
October 01, 2024, 09:15:51 PM
I mean, just call out Vance on why he's there and not Pence. What *is* one thing that Vice Presidents do and almost cost Pence his life by not following Trump's orders to not do?
"Everything that brought you here -- all the things that made you a prisoner of past sins -- they are gone. Forever and for good. So let the past go... and live."

"Somebody, after all, had to make a start. What we wrote and said is also believed by many others. They just don't dare express themselves as we did."

Valmy

#2451
October 01, 2024, 09:23:38 PM
Minnesotans are just too nice for this shit I guess.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

DGuller

#2452
October 01, 2024, 09:26:56 PM
Poor Joe Biden, he's being erased from history Stalin-style during this debate.  At least Stalin was courteous enough to have you shot first.

Josquius

#2453
October 02, 2024, 04:18:21 AM
So from what I gather from clips and reading a written summary, is that Vance won if it was a competitive debate club debate- expected from Waltz being set up as not a good debater and Vance's origins in the 4chan circle of the hard right.
If it was purely about who is the best option for being vp (/who isn't there but is the best option to be president) then Walz presented a fair more comfortable option.
The main errors seem to have been Walz in the past misremembering his travel itinerary 35 years ago and rambling as he answered this, and far more damning, Vance refusing to admit Trump lost the election in 2020.
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crazy canuck

#2454
October 02, 2024, 04:29:12 AM Last Edit: October 02, 2024, 09:06:10 AM by crazy canuck
Walz got off to a very shaky start.  He mixed up Israel and Iran a couple of times in his opening rambling answer.  He was clearly uncomfortable on foreign affairs issues.  But he gained his feet and got stronger as the debate went on.  In the end he portrayed as a folksy man of the people, which is probably why he was selected.

Vance is a glib used car salesman. But I fear many undecided Americans won't see him for what he is, and will now feel more comfortable voting for Trump.

Sophie Scholl

#2455
October 02, 2024, 07:38:21 AM
After sitting with it for a bit:

It definitely felt like Walz got caught flatfooted by Vance not being an idiot psychopath like he had portrayed so far in the campaign. He was caught off guard by the insane opener of the "Would you let Israel preemptively strike anyone" question, too, and it took him time to recover. He definitely was too nice and didn't push back enough, but I'm also not sure how that would have played considering Vance was acting all buddy buddy with him. I think Vance could have easily lost his cool, though, as he came close a few times just off of real basic stuff. Definitely a lost chance to display the wolf in sheep's clothing effort Vance was pulling. Walz was definitely Mr. Mid-West, with all the pluses and minuses that entails. The moderators did an excellent job outside of having that first question where they did. They kept the veeps on task, cut out most interrupting, allowed for responses, kept time, and even cut the mics early to kind of yank the chain and set the boundaries and their authority.
"Everything that brought you here -- all the things that made you a prisoner of past sins -- they are gone. Forever and for good. So let the past go... and live."

"Somebody, after all, had to make a start. What we wrote and said is also believed by many others. They just don't dare express themselves as we did."

crazy canuck

#2456
October 02, 2024, 09:10:19 AM
Yeah, a golden opportunity Walz had was when Vance went on about how the US needs to make children more affordable in answer to the abortion question.

Walz could have pointed out that is straight out of the project 2025 playbook, and he could have really leaned into it.

But Walz only mentioned it once and in passing.  I would've thought the best strategy would've been to pin Vance and Trump to project 2025 given how much they have tried to backpedal away from it.  But instead, waltz came off as being very scripted, and having carefully rehearsed the three tragic stories he told of women impacted by restrictions on abortion.

Valmy

#2457
October 02, 2024, 09:25:18 AM
Needless to say that debate did nothing to calm my nerves about this election.

Not that a Vice Presidential Debate was going to do much, but still. The greatest one sided dunk in VP Debate History was Lloyd Bentsen over Dan Quayle and his side was crushed in a landslide.

But still a few soundbites of Vance being a spaz couldn't have hurt.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

DGuller

#2458
October 02, 2024, 09:43:37 AM
I think Vance won the debate by normalizing himself, which is unfortunate.

Valmy

#2459
October 02, 2024, 09:50:09 AM
Quote from: DGuller on October 02, 2024, 09:43:37 AMI think Vance won the debate by normalizing himself, which is unfortunate.

He definitely had that Ivy League stench all over him.

Doom
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."
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