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The Impeachment of President Donald J Trump

Started by FunkMonk, September 24, 2019, 02:10:43 PM

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grumbler

Quote from: Sheilbh on February 13, 2021, 04:35:53 PM
Quote from: FunkMonk on February 13, 2021, 04:27:27 PM
Mitch: Donald Trump is directly responsible for inciting insurrection against Congress and a reprehensible human being.

Mitch: Also I voted to acquit.
I think Mitch's line might be the most dangerous for Trump. It's basically a technicality. The Senate doesn't have jurisdiction to impeach, but there is ample evidence that Trump committed crimes - to me that implies that someone has jurisdiction and Trump should be arrested and prosecuted, no?

I think that McConnell's line is even more dangerous to McConnell.  His take was basically:
1.  The Senate lacks jurisdiction, even though it voted that it had jurisdiction,, because McConnell doesn't respect Senate votes that he doesn't win
2.  Trump is guilty but McConnell will vote to acquit because his loyalty to party outweighs his loyalty to justice.
3.  McConnell will shameless admit all of this because he thinks he is bulletproof.

Today was a new low even for a man who specializes in dwelling underneath whale shit lying at the bottom of the ocean.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

grumbler

Quote from: DGuller on February 13, 2021, 04:36:16 PM
One good thing is that at least this time we had 7 people who held the line.  They may be a minority, but at least it's not just Mitt.  Now that's they're all-in against Trumpism, maybe they'll stick with it.

I think a couple of them are retiring soon, but you are correct that there are some Republicans who are now committed to the anti-Trump camp.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

FunkMonk

Quote from: Sheilbh on February 13, 2021, 04:35:53 PM
Quote from: FunkMonk on February 13, 2021, 04:27:27 PM
Mitch: Donald Trump is directly responsible for inciting insurrection against Congress and a reprehensible human being.

Mitch: Also I voted to acquit.
I think Mitch's line might be the most dangerous for Trump. It's basically a technicality. The Senate doesn't have jurisdiction to impeach, but there is ample evidence that Trump committed crimes - to me that implies that someone has jurisdiction and Trump should be arrested and prosecuted, no?

Someone on Twitter noted that Mitch might hope the Biden DOJ prosecutes Trump and then the Republicans ride that train into power in 2022/2024.

Unsure of this 11 dimensional chess move idea but who knows.
Person. Woman. Man. Camera. TV.

celedhring


Monoriu

Ok, now the bad lawyers part makes more sense.  If you are going to walk free anyway, why pay the lawyers  :lol:

Oexmelin

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 13, 2021, 03:32:46 PM
If one side gets witnesses, the other side gets witnesses and the other side made it clear they would make a circus out of it.

The Democrats didn't really want or need "witnesses" - the events were televised for all to see.

They wanted to get the McCarthy call into evidence.  Once they got that they didn't need anything else.

That's still a terrible decision. There would have been a lot of other GOP figures to drag in the mud; others to place in a difficult bind. "Moving on" is the GOP's play. It shouldn't have been the Dems.
Que le grand cric me croque !

Sheilbh

Quote from: Oexmelin on February 13, 2021, 06:31:03 PM
That's still a terrible decision. There would have been a lot of other GOP figures to drag in the mud; others to place in a difficult bind. "Moving on" is the GOP's play. It shouldn't have been the Dems.
But would they be dragged in the mud? They'd have been uncooperative witnesses who would, at best, probably be economical with the truth, the President's team could cross-examine them and there's probably very little chance of them being prosecuted for perjury even if they lied.

Unless the Democrats know what the witnesses are going to say I feel like it would have been very risky calling them (and politically I think it'd be quite likely they lost control of messaging).
Let's bomb Russia!

The Minsky Moment

It would have taken a very powerful and well-packaged case and turned it into an interminable shit show, sucking up all political oxygen and spiking Biden's presidency for weeks or even months.  It's really a no brainer.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

The Minsky Moment

The national GOP is now neatly arranging themselves into a circular firing squad and shots are already fired.

It is perfectly legitimate tactics for Democrats to let this play out rather than jump in the middle.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

Razgovory

I really hope that in a few years we aren't looking at some sort of catastrophe and saying to ourselves "If only Republicans had the guts to stand up to Trump in 2021 none of this would have happened."
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

The Minsky Moment

Quote from: Razgovory on February 13, 2021, 07:09:03 PM
I really hope that in a few years we aren't looking at some sort of catastrophe and saying to ourselves "If only Republicans had the guts to stand up to Trump in 20210 none of this would have happened."

FYP
The ship sailed last impeachment.  Last clear chance.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

Razgovory

Yeah, and because they didn't do anything last year we had the attack on Capital this year.  What new horror will be birthed by this shameful display?
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

viper37

Quote from: garbon on February 13, 2021, 02:54:03 PM
The Democrats don't want to sit with this forever.


Then,
a) why bring the matter of impeachment once more?
b) why bring the matter of witnesses, make it a vote and once they win, retract their demand?


and also, I think sitting on this a little longer, as far as they went was their best solution.  A huge part of the GOP is radicalizing right now, and the moderates are slowly pushing back.  Not enough to win, but just enough to, maybe, tip the scales toward the Democrats, or even to create a new center-right party that would divide the GOP.

Seems a good result for the Dems.  What am I missing?
I don't do meditation.  I drink alcohol to relax, like normal people.

If Microsoft Excel decided to stop working overnight, the world would practically end.

Valmy

Glad it is over, our duty has been done. Time to get the rest of this legislative agenda passed. The clock is ticking.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

viper37

Quote from: Razgovory on February 13, 2021, 07:25:23 PM
Yeah, and because they didn't do anything last year we had the attack on Capital this year.  What new horror will be birthed by this shameful display?
yeah, also this.
when you get complacent with criminals, they feel emboldened, and Trump certainly fits that pattern.
I don't do meditation.  I drink alcohol to relax, like normal people.

If Microsoft Excel decided to stop working overnight, the world would practically end.