Mass killing in Orlando gay nightclub

[Martinus]

Ted Cruz has posted this:

Our nation is at war. From 9/11 to the Boston Marathon, from Fort Hood to Chattanooga, from San Bernardino to last night's horrific attack in Orlando, radical Islamic terrorism has declared jihad on America. Early reports indicate the Orlando terrorist had pledged his allegiance to ISIS, and he had previously been investigated by the FBI. And yet, as with the prior attacks, we were not able to act to stop this act of vicious terrorism that has now murdered 50 and injured more than 50 others.

Our hearts go out to those killed and wounded last night. Our prayers are with their families, and with all their grieving loved ones.

It is a time for action. We need a Commander in Chief who will speak the truth, and who will unleash the full force and fury of the American military to utterly destroy ISIS and its affiliates. We need to pass the Expatriate Terrorist Act, so that known ISIS terrorists cannot use U.S. passports to return to America and wage jihad. We need a President who is serious – who will identify the enemy by name and do everything necessary to defeat it.

The next few days will be sadly predictable. Democrats will try to use this attack to change the subject. As a matter of rigid ideology, far too many Democrats – from Barack Obama to Hillary Clinton – will refuse to utter the words "radical Islamic terrorism." They will claim this attack, like they claimed every previous attack, was isolated and had nothing to do with the vicious Islamist theology that is daily waging war on us across the globe. And they will try to exploit this terror attack to undermine the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms of law-abiding Americans.

Enough is enough. What we need is for every American – Democrat and Republican – to come together, abandon political correctness, and unite in defeating radical Islamic terrorism.

ISIS doesn't just target soldiers. They don't just target Republicans. Or Jews. They also target Christians and fellow Muslims. They target each and every one of us. As we saw this morning, they target the gay and lesbian community. Their objective, which they broadcast worldwide, is to murder or forcibly convert every single American.

For all the Democrats who are loud champions of the gay and lesbian community whenever there is a culture battle waging, now is the opportunity to speak out against an ideology that calls for the murder of gays and lesbians. ISIS and the theocracy in Iran (supported with American taxpayer dollars) regularly murder homosexuals, throwing them from buildings and burying them under rocks. This is wrong, it is evil, and we must all stand against it. Every human being has a right to live according to his or her faith and conscience, and nobody has a right to murder someone who doesn't share their faith or sexual orientation. If you're a Democratic politician and you really want to stand for LGBT, show real courage and stand up against the vicious ideology that has targeted our fellow Americans for murder.

Today, all of America stands in solidarity with the people of Orlando. All of us should lift them up in prayer, demand action, and if you have any information about the Orlando shooter or potential radical Islamic terror plots, please act to keep us safe by using the FBI tips website: https://tips.fbi.gov/

He got some of his facts a bit wrong and he does seem a tad hypocritical but I never thought I'd say this but I agree with Ted Cruz more than I agree with Barrack Obama.

[viper37]

It seems like there's a much stronger correlation between mental illness for mass killings in the US than religion.

Is there really? How many of these guys were actually diagnosed?

given the low access to quality healthcare services for a big chunk of the population, the stygma with mental illness that still push people to shelter afflicted family members rather than seek help and the number of educated people willingly supporting Trump, I think it's fair to say there's a problem there.

[garbon]

Ted Cruz has posted this:

Our nation is at war. From 9/11 to the Boston Marathon, from Fort Hood to Chattanooga, from San Bernardino to last night's horrific attack in Orlando, radical Islamic terrorism has declared jihad on America. Early reports indicate the Orlando terrorist had pledged his allegiance to ISIS, and he had previously been investigated by the FBI. And yet, as with the prior attacks, we were not able to act to stop this act of vicious terrorism that has now murdered 50 and injured more than 50 others.

Our hearts go out to those killed and wounded last night. Our prayers are with their families, and with all their grieving loved ones.

It is a time for action. We need a Commander in Chief who will speak the truth, and who will unleash the full force and fury of the American military to utterly destroy ISIS and its affiliates. We need to pass the Expatriate Terrorist Act, so that known ISIS terrorists cannot use U.S. passports to return to America and wage jihad. We need a President who is serious – who will identify the enemy by name and do everything necessary to defeat it.

The next few days will be sadly predictable. Democrats will try to use this attack to change the subject. As a matter of rigid ideology, far too many Democrats – from Barack Obama to Hillary Clinton – will refuse to utter the words "radical Islamic terrorism." They will claim this attack, like they claimed every previous attack, was isolated and had nothing to do with the vicious Islamist theology that is daily waging war on us across the globe. And they will try to exploit this terror attack to undermine the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms of law-abiding Americans.

Enough is enough. What we need is for every American – Democrat and Republican – to come together, abandon political correctness, and unite in defeating radical Islamic terrorism.

ISIS doesn't just target soldiers. They don't just target Republicans. Or Jews. They also target Christians and fellow Muslims. They target each and every one of us. As we saw this morning, they target the gay and lesbian community. Their objective, which they broadcast worldwide, is to murder or forcibly convert every single American.

For all the Democrats who are loud champions of the gay and lesbian community whenever there is a culture battle waging, now is the opportunity to speak out against an ideology that calls for the murder of gays and lesbians. ISIS and the theocracy in Iran (supported with American taxpayer dollars) regularly murder homosexuals, throwing them from buildings and burying them under rocks. This is wrong, it is evil, and we must all stand against it. Every human being has a right to live according to his or her faith and conscience, and nobody has a right to murder someone who doesn't share their faith or sexual orientation. If you're a Democratic politician and you really want to stand for LGBT, show real courage and stand up against the vicious ideology that has targeted our fellow Americans for murder.

Today, all of America stands in solidarity with the people of Orlando. All of us should lift them up in prayer, demand action, and if you have any information about the Orlando shooter or potential radical Islamic terror plots, please act to keep us safe by using the FBI tips website: https://tips.fbi.gov/

He got some of his facts a bit wrong and he does seem a tad hypocritical but I never thought I'd say this but I agree with Ted Cruz more than I agree with Barrack Obama.

You would hope that would be a wake up call to you about your current though process...

[Valmy]

He got some of his facts a bit wrong and he does seem a tad hypocritical but I never thought I'd say this but I agree with Ted Cruz more than I agree with Barrack Obama.

Barack Obama's drones have been murdering Islamic terrorists by the bushel for years. I do not understand why it is so important for him to spout off shit. He is the President and must make statements that help the US in pursuing its interests. Ted Cruz can go off like a nutter if he wants. Hell Dubya made those 'Axis of Evil' and 'With us or with the terrorists' statements that never specifically condemned Islam yet we paid a big diplomatic price for years.

Obama going off might make some people feel better but the US would pay a big price for them.

[Valmy]

It seems like there's a much stronger correlation between mental illness for mass killings in the US than religion.

Is there really? How many of these guys were actually diagnosed?

given the low access to quality healthcare services for a big chunk of the population, the stygma with mental illness that still push people to shelter afflicted family members rather than seek help and the number of educated people willingly supporting Trump, I think it's fair to say there's a problem there.

Yeah well we demolished our mental health program in this country decades ago. It does frustrate me to hear politicians say things like 'the problem is not guns it is MENTAL ILLNESS!!'

And then do nothing about mental illness. I mean if you actually believe that wouldn't you be launching a campaign to help with mental illness? It is much needed and long overdue.

[viper37]

Ted Cruz has posted this:

Our nation is at war. From 9/11 to the Boston Marathon, from Fort Hood to Chattanooga, from San Bernardino to last night's horrific attack in Orlando, radical Islamic terrorism has declared jihad on America. Early reports indicate the Orlando terrorist had pledged his allegiance to ISIS, and he had previously been investigated by the FBI. And yet, as with the prior attacks, we were not able to act to stop this act of vicious terrorism that has now murdered 50 and injured more than 50 others.

Our hearts go out to those killed and wounded last night. Our prayers are with their families, and with all their grieving loved ones.

It is a time for action. We need a Commander in Chief who will speak the truth, and who will unleash the full force and fury of the American military to utterly destroy ISIS and its affiliates. We need to pass the Expatriate Terrorist Act, so that known ISIS terrorists cannot use U.S. passports to return to America and wage jihad. We need a President who is serious – who will identify the enemy by name and do everything necessary to defeat it.

The next few days will be sadly predictable. Democrats will try to use this attack to change the subject. As a matter of rigid ideology, far too many Democrats – from Barack Obama to Hillary Clinton – will refuse to utter the words "radical Islamic terrorism." They will claim this attack, like they claimed every previous attack, was isolated and had nothing to do with the vicious Islamist theology that is daily waging war on us across the globe. And they will try to exploit this terror attack to undermine the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms of law-abiding Americans.

Enough is enough. What we need is for every American – Democrat and Republican – to come together, abandon political correctness, and unite in defeating radical Islamic terrorism.

ISIS doesn't just target soldiers. They don't just target Republicans. Or Jews. They also target Christians and fellow Muslims. They target each and every one of us. As we saw this morning, they target the gay and lesbian community. Their objective, which they broadcast worldwide, is to murder or forcibly convert every single American.

For all the Democrats who are loud champions of the gay and lesbian community whenever there is a culture battle waging, now is the opportunity to speak out against an ideology that calls for the murder of gays and lesbians. ISIS and the theocracy in Iran (supported with American taxpayer dollars) regularly murder homosexuals, throwing them from buildings and burying them under rocks. This is wrong, it is evil, and we must all stand against it. Every human being has a right to live according to his or her faith and conscience, and nobody has a right to murder someone who doesn't share their faith or sexual orientation. If you're a Democratic politician and you really want to stand for LGBT, show real courage and stand up against the vicious ideology that has targeted our fellow Americans for murder.

Today, all of America stands in solidarity with the people of Orlando. All of us should lift them up in prayer, demand action, and if you have any information about the Orlando shooter or potential radical Islamic terror plots, please act to keep us safe by using the FBI tips website: https://tips.fbi.gov/

He got some of his facts a bit wrong and he does seem a tad hypocritical but I never thought I'd say this but I agree with Ted Cruz more than I agree with Barrack Obama.

Oh, sure, now he wants to wage war against ISIS.

You know, when it was time to do something in Iraq that would have prevented the rise of ISIS, where were all these GOP champions?
Nowhere.  They declared job done, and they started packing.

When Obama wanted to intervene in Syria, where were these GOP champions of the fight against terrorism?  Nowhere.  They did not want to send troops anymore than Obama.  Once the Russians started bombing shit, then, they started talking about a possible intervention.  By then it was too late.

Bush and his GOP friends shifted resources from Afghanistan to Iraq.  Only a token force of 20 000 US Airforce soldiers were left there, with no intelligence resources to speak of, everyone went to Iraq, instead.  While Ben Laden was able to roam free and consolidate his terror network.

ANd once in Iraq, they expected the people there to welcome them with open arms.  They had no plan to rebuild the country, only prayers would be sufficient.

Obama was left to fix the mess the Republicans created in the first place, because they are incompetent morons.

Had I known they were so incompetent, I would have never supported the war.

What is it Cruz aims to achieve, exactly, under a Trump leadership?  Bomb Syria and Iraq?  Deploy troops over there? For how long?  How many troops?  What is the plan exactly to fight the ideology?

The truth is the GOPtards have no plan.  "Let's take a strong stance!".  Yeah, that sounds nice for the morons who believe a couple of bombs will solve the problems.  So far, the war in Afghanistan and Iraq under a GOP leadership has been a failure.  What will Trump and Cruz do differently?  Kill more people?  How many?  There's 1.7 billion muslims (25% of the world pop).  Do you stop at 50%? 70%? 100%?

[Valmy]

Cruz does not speak for the GOP Viper, he is very much his own nutty man.

[derspiess]

For whatever it's worth, most Muslim guys I have met over the years seemed to be short-tempered Rage Monsters.  Dunno if rage is a mental illness, but it does seem to be a cultural trait of sorts.

[OttoVonBismarck]

I think Orlando PD will have to answer that question.  Maybe they didn't get the memo that it's about confronting threats instead of trying to control threats when it comes to active shooter events these days.

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case. A lot of the training on active shooter situations has been changed at least Federally in the last 10 years and it wouldn't surprise me if this hasn't trickled down to a lot of local PDs.

[OttoVonBismarck]

Goddammit.

Fifty fucking people are murdered in cold blood (and even more people seriously injured), and everyone treats it like a fucking Rorshach test - they see what they want.  The left complains about gun control, the right complains about islam.

Can't we just mourn all these deaths?  Can't we agree this was an attack motivated by BOTH radical islam and homophobia?

I replied to something Raz said flippantly, but I think is true.  Today we are all gay nightclub partiers.  Not because it is literally true - but today we stand with those who didn't deserve to die just because they fancy other men and went to a place to meet people with a similar outlook on life.

You know... I didn't support gay marriage 10 years ago, and even now I'm not convinced that was a good move for our society to take.  But even so... I weep for people to be murdered in cold blood because they are attracted to the same sex.  What the fuck is wrong with people?

No--we have to respond to attacks as attacks. We cannot allow the left to reclassify terrorist attacks as domestic "issues" that require national soul searching. This is no different from 9/11 or Pearl Harbor, and it's disgusting it isn't being recognized for what it is.

[Malthus]

Yeah well we demolished our mental health program in this country decades ago. It does frustrate me to hear politicians say things like 'the problem is not guns it is MENTAL ILLNESS!!'

And then do nothing about mental illness. I mean if you actually believe that wouldn't you be launching a campaign to help with mental illness?

Seems to me the problem is a combo, in no particular order:

- Widespread availability of guns capable of killing large numbers of people (I saw one news commentator claiming that the specific type of gun used here was 'the weapon of choice of mass murderers', which sounded almost like a selling point);

- Lack of facilities and processes for tracking or treating mental illness (we in Canada have the exact same problem, as I've seen first hand);

- political and religious extremism, and in particular nowadays, Islamic extremism.

Thing is, for political and social reasons, it seems like every person wants to emphasize one of these problems over the others, when what has to be dealt with is all of them; also, that even dealing with all of them can never be any sort of guarantee of safety: there is no way of preventing lone mass murderers from murdering.

[Valmy]

For whatever it's worth, most Muslim guys I have met over the years seemed to be short-tempered Rage Monsters.  Dunno if rage is a mental illness, but it does seem to be a cultural trait of sorts.

Huh. What sort of Muslims are you meeting? The Turks I meet are almost serenely calm. To the point it almost makes me uneasy. Granted all the Muslims I meet are Turks who are Gulen types in exile which is very specific.

[Valmy]

No--we have to respond to attacks as attacks. We cannot allow the left to reclassify terrorist attacks as domestic "issues" that require national soul searching. This is no different from 9/11 or Pearl Harbor, and it's disgusting it isn't being recognized for what it is.

It is weirdly Puritan-like. Like this is us bearing the history of our sin of Homophobia. Thus we are all responsible and cannot blame the attacker or anything.

[Grey Fox]

Will the US finally finds the line? It wasn't 20 kindergartners, will it be 50+ men?

[Valmy]

Will the US finally finds the line? It wasn't 20 kindergartners, will it be 50+ men?

For gun control? Never going to happen. It would require a Constitutional Amendment. Things would have to get to Mexico/Brazil/Venezuela type levels before that kind of thing gets traction.