Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Sheilbh]

We unquestionably accept the socialization of national defense, or the fire service. Socializing the restaurant industry would be awful. Let's just be pragmatic. The pursuit of some ideological perfect solution is a real mistake I think.

Agreed. But this is partly what annoys me about Corbyn is that for all of the talk of 'new ideas' and Labour needing to go in a new direction I can't think of a single major policy announcement and the few details we've had are all things that Miliband was arguing for. An issue with Corbyn is he's spent 30 years making speeches to dimly attended meetings in draughty school halls and he sounds like it. I'd find it all more forgivable if there was some sort of policy agenda to go with the platitudes - another difference, I think, with Sanders.

The Corbyn thing is extraordinary, but it's so easy to just roll ones eyes, and say "oh bah, he's nuts what a ridiculous lefty" etc etc, but he has been thrown up by the Labour party membership (not actually vomited, more thrust forward ) for a reason. I think it's well established that the PLP is significantly to the right of the membership, in many cases for good reasons, and that selecting a leader who is more competent and compelling than Corbyn is only going to be a success if they are in some way recognizably left wing.

It's the competence that drives me mad. That Vice documentary when he has the Shadow Work and Pensions Secretary resigning and launching a fierce attack on the Chancellor's budget. Corbyn's about to go to the Commons and his team suggest including some attack lines on the government. He replies 'it's not up to me to throw in more than a couple of lines about the government and events'. He's literally Leader of the Opposition

I agree though Labour need to recognise why this has happened and I think they need a leader from the soft left rather than leaping to Liz Kendall.

The whole voting for Iraq thing does weigh rather heavily on my mind during all this. It's not trivial.

Agreed but I do find this odd in terms of Labour.
2007 - no opposition to the coronation of someone who voted for the Iraq war and could have prevented it.
2010 - probably a big fan in an 'opponent' beating all the other candidates.
2015 - a major factor in a strong opponent winning.
2016 - looks like being the main factor in picking an anti-Corbyn candidate.

It's very odd that the further we get from the war it seems like the more important it becomes for the Labour leadership.

[Sheilbh]

Interesting. Very much a 'you broke it, you own it' approach here. Trade, Brexit and FCO to Leavers

Edit: Also interesting/useful to remember that Liam Fox resigned in disgrace from the cabinet over allowing his friend, Adam Werritty, to have one-on-one meetings with foreign governments when he was accompanying Fox (then at Defence) unofficially on official trips. I'm sure Werritty, at least, will be delighted by this turn up.

Edit: Of course customarily a cabinet reshuffle means the opposition needs to reshuffle too. Needless to say if Corbyn does need to fill any of those posts I am available to be ennobled 

[Sheilbh]

Also Owen Smith has promised a second EU referendum as Labour policy. Very bold and I think a way he could beat Corbyn!

Increasingly feel Eagle was set up as a stalking horse without realising it...

She continues to have dreadful timing though. She announced her leadership as Leadsom dropped out of the race and tonight she scheduled her big speech on Europe - as Theresa May gave her first speech as PM

[derspiess]

The concept of a shadow cabinet has always seemed odd to me.  Almost like the opposition are being sore losers.

[Valmy]

The concept of a shadow cabinet has always seemed odd to me.  Almost like the opposition are being sore losers.

It is pretty vital in a parliamentary system where theoretically you could be called upon to form a government at any moment.

Granted pretty unlikely when one party has a majority like the Tories do.

[Barrister]

The concept of a shadow cabinet has always seemed odd to me.  Almost like the opposition are being sore losers.

It's all about projecting the image of being a government-in-waiting.  And gives specific MPs the role of holding specific ministers accountable.

[Sheilbh]

Also in theory it should lead to greater scrutiny because there's someone from the opposite party who knows your brief.

At the moment....it's not quite working optimally....

[Josquius]

Boris. Boris. 
Funny.
http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2016/07/13/everyone-losing-shit-idea-boris-foreign-secretary-13-tweets-need/

Is it just me or is this a "you can't squirm out of responsibility for fucking things up for britain in the world so easily" appointment ?

[Sheilbh]

Boris. Boris. 
Funny.
http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2016/07/13/everyone-losing-shit-idea-boris-foreign-secretary-13-tweets-need/

Is it just me or is this a "you can't squirm out of responsibility for fucking things up for britain in the world so easily" appointment ?

Combined with 'but I don't want you fucking anything else up'.

He's a Foreign Secretary as we leave the EU and look for new trade deals with no responsibility for leaving the EU or negotiating new trade deals

[Zanza]

The concept of a shadow cabinet has always seemed odd to me.  Almost like the opposition are being sore losers.

It is pretty vital in a parliamentary system where theoretically you could be called upon to form a government at any moment.

Granted pretty unlikely when one party has a majority like the Tories do.

The concept of a shadow cabinet seems to be specific to Westminster style parliamentarian systems though. Our parliamentarian system doesn't have anything comparable.

[Sheilbh]

Seen a couple of comments today that the Department for Brexit is getting whichever civil servants they want. The best and the most committed are being poached from everywhere else. It's top priority now.

[celedhring]

Seen a couple of comments today that the Department for Brexit is getting whichever civil servants they want. The best and the most committed are being poached from everywhere else. It's top priority now.

Given some of the tweets from Mr. Davis, he'll need them.



For starters he'll need somebody to tell him that EU nations can't sign bilateral trade deals.

[Sheilbh]

I' saw those weird because I'm fairly sure he knows. He was Europe Minister for four-five years under Major.

[celedhring]

I' saw those weird because I'm fairly sure he knows. He was Europe Minister for four-five years under Major.

Maybe he's optimistic and believes the EU will implode in its entirety before Brexit talks conclude.

Or he just lied during the campaign to make Brexit look less dangerous. But surely it can't be that!

[mongers]

Fine words from May, but  re-arrangements of the alphabet are cheap.