Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[garbon]

Anyone else surprised by how low the LGBT+ percentages are?

Little surprised to not see more bisexuals. I figured they would be the most numerous LGBT+ types.

On what basis?

[Tamas]

Anyone else surprised by how low the LGBT+ percentages are?

Little surprised to not see more bisexuals. I figured they would be the most numerous LGBT+ types.

I think Josq is on to something that if your are bisexual, still existing social pressures to just focus on the opposing sex make it more likely you'll just label yourself hetero and keep your additional inclinations on the down low.

[Valmy]

Anyone else surprised by how low the LGBT+ percentages are?

Little surprised to not see more bisexuals. I figured they would be the most numerous LGBT+ types.

On what basis?

Recent polling in the United States.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/332522/percentage-americans-lgbt.aspx

More than half of LGBT adults identify as bisexual. LGBT identification is much more common among younger adults than older adults.

And my expectation that as LGBT+ gains acceptance in general that more people who could pass as cis hetero will start to identify as bisexual/more gender fluid as time goes on and there are a significant number of these people. It is just easier to ignore this part of themselves in our current culture.

[garbon]

Anyone else surprised by how low the LGBT+ percentages are?

Little surprised to not see more bisexuals. I figured they would be the most numerous LGBT+ types.

On what basis?

Recent polling in the United States.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/332522/percentage-americans-lgbt.aspx

More than half of LGBT adults identify as bisexual. LGBT identification is much more common among younger adults than older adults.

And my expectation that as LGBT+ gains acceptance in general that more people who could pass as cis hetero will start to identify as bisexual/more gender fluid as time goes on and there are a significant number of these people. It is just easier to ignore this part of themselves in our current culture.

Looks like there is a lot of variation on survey results:

https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/how-many-people-lgbt/

Anecdotally (and myself included) on the male side of lgbt, I know plenty of now gay men who first identified as bi.

[Valmy]

Hey my biases could be way wrong. It wouldn't be the first time 

Just my current expectation is that non-binary genderwise and bisexual sexualitywise (and it's variant pansexual) will increase over time. But time will tell.

[garbon]

Hey my biases could be way wrong. It wouldn't be the first time 

Just my current expectation is that non-binary genderwise and bisexual sexualitywise (and it's variant pansexual) will increase over time. But time will tell.

I think I've seen there might be trends among younger generations with higher bisexual identification but I'll admit I haven't looked to closely into it.

[Sheilbh]

I am, perhaps because I grew up with the Kinsey approximation of 10%

Yes. Also it is just closer to 10% if you live in South London

I think I've seen there might be trends among younger generations with higher bisexual identification but I'll admit I haven't looked to closely into it.

FWIW on the map it looks like bisexuals are even more correlated with university towns than lesbian and gays.

For example the most bisexual area of the country is Aberystwyth North, which I feel has to be because there's lots of students in an otherwise relatively small town

[Josquius]

Looks like there is a lot of variation on survey results:

https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/how-many-people-lgbt/

Anecdotally (and myself included) on the male side of lgbt, I know plenty of now gay men who first identified as bi.

I think I've seen there might be trends among younger generations with higher bisexual identification but I'll admit I haven't looked to closely into it.

Would you say these ex-bi guys 'going gay' are guys who were in denial (internally or merely externally) or who naturally did evolve in their tastes or who merely with no pressure came to understand what they were really into?

Purely anecdotally myself I can think of a bunch of girls who claimed to be bi as teens. It was quite a cool thing for girls. But for boys there was still quite the stigma (Though again out of a time and place. Look back to Glam Rock and you did get more straight guys claiming to be bi to be cool).
I do think to an extent this continues to this day.

I think to consider in this if you imagine that tomorrow you meet a young woman who really triggers your instincts and makes you go "Oh yes I would".... you're a happily married guy so why would you say you're actually bi, that would just complicate things with the husband for no good reason. Something which I imagine is far more common from opposite sex couples.
I'm straight. If I discover there's some guys I'm into.... then unless I plan on running away with one of them why change what I officially am?

[mongers]

I am, perhaps because I grew up with the Kinsey approximation of 10%

Yes. Also it is just closer to 10% if you live in South London

I think I've seen there might be trends among younger generations with higher bisexual identification but I'll admit I haven't looked to closely into it.

FWIW on the map it looks like bisexuals are even more correlated with university towns than lesbian and gays.

For example the most bisexual area of the country is Aberystwyth North, which I feel has to be because there's lots of students in an otherwise relatively small town

I used to lived in that 'borough', didn't notice it at the time.

[OttoVonBismarck]

I've always thought the 10% number is just people who may feel some same sex attraction or even fool around, but a huge % of those people are still perfectly attracted to the opposite sex. With that paradigm when it comes time to form long term relationships I think the vast majority of that cohort identify as straight and pursue straight relationships--because of all the cultural benefits of such relationships especially for family formation, which more people than ever now marry with no intention of having kids, but it is still a huge chunk of the population that want to marry and have children at some point in their lives. While there are avenues to that for gays, it is far easier to be in a heterosexual relationship and produce your own batch, if you're someone who may feel same sex attraction but is also happy in a hetero relationship.

I've always thought the 20th/21st century definitions of gay / straight were weirdly out of sync with most of the history of human sexuality and probably out of the real biology too. Basically it ignores the reality there are people who are interested in fooling around with a wide range of people, but who at some point will probably decide to just pursue a heterosexual marriage because the human species and its continuance is heavily geared around such relationships, and there are just many benefits to being in one if you're not a part of the (much smaller IMO) group that only feels attraction to the same sex.

[The Larch]

For example the most bisexual area of the country is Aberystwyth North, which I feel has to be because there's lots of students in an otherwise relatively small town

This comes to mind...

[garbon]

Would you say these ex-bi guys 'going gay' are guys who were in denial (internally or merely externally) or who naturally did evolve in their tastes or who merely with no pressure came to understand what they were really into?

I think it was a bit of easy denial that allowed one to think that one could live a "full, normal" life. I think I'd discarded such notions by 17 and little did I know marriage would eventually be an option for gays.

[Barrister]

Anyone else surprised by how low the LGBT+ percentages are?

I am, perhaps because I grew up with the Kinsey approximation of 10%

The Kinsey 10% figure was always nonsense.  It was selected as a more political statement (10% is large enough to be significant, yet not large enough to be overly threatening) than a figure supported by science.

There can still be some argument over numbers, but 3% as being LGBT seems more likely to be accurate.

[Sheilbh]

I've always thought the 20th/21st century definitions of gay / straight were weirdly out of sync with most of the history of human sexuality and probably out of the real biology too. Basically it ignores the reality there are people who are interested in fooling around with a wide range of people, but who at some point will probably decide to just pursue a heterosexual marriage because the human species and its continuance is heavily geared around such relationships, and there are just many benefits to being in one if you're not a part of the (much smaller IMO) group that only feels attraction to the same sex.

Yes - I think that's reflected in scholarship on the history of sexuality and sexual identities. I think in academic circles they would basically argue that "straight" and "gay" as identities or as acts are basically the result of various structures operating on each other.

But I think the activist/political framing, which is more common, is around a "born this way" sexuality and accompanying identity/community. I think that framing is useful in helping people come out, or accept their feelings. I suspect the view that there is a fixed percent of eternal gays through history and all that changes is whether they're oppressed or free is probably wrong factually. But I think it's very helpfully wrong politically (at least at this point).

Separately, on census but this time housing I feel like these two maps explain a lot of British politics

This is the most common tenure by local authority (a bit FPTP-ish). I imagine in many ways that just reflects that the over-65s plus nearly 65s are a large chunk of the population in most of the country:


And this one shows that while renting has increased we are still very much, in Thatcher's phrase, "a property owning democracy". This includes owns outright and mortgages v private or social rent. Surprised that even, for example, Bristol is about 55% owners

[Richard Hakluyt]

I'm not surprised by the map at all; there is no housing problem for most of us. Similarly there is no unemployment problem for most of us; no childcare problem for most of us and no racial discrimination for most of us etc etc

The past twelve years have not seen much in the way of empathy and solidarity in British voting patterns; lets hope this changes at the next General Election.