Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Sheilbh]

The Daily Mail is covering this in detail too :

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8457073/Dossier-private-messages-Robert-Jenrick-rushed-property-scheme.html#comments

They are now pretty close to being an anti-government paper; which is important I think.

Yep. On their front page too. Of couse I'd expect nothing less from the Daily Mail, given that this scandal involved Richard Desmond who owns the Express.

Though I thought the papers had declared a truce in recent years. So the Mail stopped accusing Desmond of being a pornographer and the Express stopped bringing up the Mail's "Hurrah for the Blackshirts" past.

[Tamas]

Seriously if the criminality aspect is not raised and investigated by at least journalists, it will just show that this all a show. For the cut he must have gotten for taking care of it, resigning means just getting the early retirement he already has more than enough for. Not exactly a punishment.

[Sheilbh]

Seriously if the criminality aspect is not raised and investigated by at least journalists, it will just show that this all a show. For the cut he must have gotten for taking care of it, resigning means just getting the early retirement he already has more than enough for. Not exactly a punishment.

What's the criminality? I don't think anyone's alleging he personally got a cut.

[Tamas]

Seriously if the criminality aspect is not raised and investigated by at least journalists, it will just show that this all a show. For the cut he must have gotten for taking care of it, resigning means just getting the early retirement he already has more than enough for. Not exactly a punishment.

What's the criminality? I don't think anyone's alleging he personally got a cut.

But of course he got a cut. Why else would have he done it? Because of a pittance his party received? Come on.

[Richard Hakluyt]

We'll see. Personally I think the most likely bribe would take the form of future favours.

[Sheilbh]

We'll see. Personally I think the most likely bribe would take the form of future favours.

Yeah - I think it's more likely just corruption of wanting to help out one of "our people".

[Richard Hakluyt]

We'll see. Personally I think the most likely bribe would take the form of future favours.

Yeah - I think it's more likely just corruption of wanting to help out one of "our people".

Which is actually worse of course. If Jenrick was an isolated crook that would be bad but easily resolved; as it is I think crony capitalism is becoming more and more a thing in the UK.

[Tamas]

It's been my theory that the ones in power stealing/corrupting relatively modestly as opposed to the eastern locust-swarm approach is the key to their success, ie. the perceived level of corruption here and in other developed countries is much lower than actual corruption, unlike in Eastern Europe where they steal what they can and shove it right in front of your face, too.

You don't illegally or even just unethically save somebody 40+ million pounds and don't get a sizeable cut. Or somebody you owe gets a cut. But somewhere there's a transaction.

[Syt]

We'll see. Personally I think the most likely bribe would take the form of future favours job opportunities.

[Sheilbh]

I don't know. I agree with RH that there's a lot of sort almost class based crony capitalism rather than straightforward bribes. And it may not even be that you get rewarded by Desmond, but you're "one of us". Also the context of this is that Desmond is a man who gave, I think, around £1.5 million to UKIP and has given huge amounts of money to the Tories before - so £12k isn't much but he is a big political donater.

And I think you make your money later on. So let's assume Jenrick doesn't lose his job - he bobs around for a few years in the cabinet, eventually he becomes Sir Robert Jenrick MP, or maybe Lord Jenrick (depending on longevity). Once he's out of the cabinet he'll probably start doing second jobs - for example a nice little non-executive director position on some property developer's board or giving "strategic consultancy". Or he works for lobbying firms offering consultancy, probably to property developers etc.

The best example is George Osborne - who now is editor of the Evening Standard (owned by his old friend Evgeny Lebedev), advisor to a venture capital fund, earns £650k a year as an advisor to Blackrock, also works as an advisor to Exor (holding company for the Agnelli family), plus roles in various think tanks here and in the US. Plus the after dinner speeches.

Edit: And you're right Tamas - I often think about the sneering at Greece/Southern Europe during the Eurozone crisis. And I'm not sure that Northern Europe is in a position to judge on corruption - you know look at Chirac and Sarko, Kohl and Schroeder, Blair etc.

[garbon]

I'm not sure which thread this belongs in (Brexit, COVID-19, Police) but I'm hoping the disturbance in Brixton last night stays as a minor incident and the police don't become too heavy handed as a result (what with Patel labeling the incident vile).

[Josquius]

It's been my theory that the ones in power stealing/corrupting relatively modestly as opposed to the eastern locust-swarm approach is the key to their success, ie. the perceived level of corruption here and in other developed countries is much lower than actual corruption, unlike in Eastern Europe where they steal what they can and shove it right in front of your face, too.

You don't illegally or even just unethically save somebody 40+ million pounds and don't get a sizeable cut. Or somebody you owe gets a cut. But somewhere there's a transaction.

A big part of it is many Brits genuinely don't have a clue what corruption means.
To them its just a vague word meaning thing we don't like. See the endless blathering about the corrupt EU.

[Gups]

This took a long time to break. All of us in the planning world were wondering for weeks why nobody in the media was paying attention to what appeared an obviously dodgy decision.

I don't think he took a cut though. Just utterly failed to understand his own role or that his clear bias would obviously come out when his decision was judicially reviewed.

[Richard Hakluyt]

I don't think this one will fly :

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/25/robert-jenrick-faces-questions-over-meeting-with-israeli-mining-heir

.......maybe in East Yorkshire where many locals invested heavily in Sirius shares.

But, again, it reminds us of why ministers traditionally resign even when their guilt is not 100% established. Journalists will be raking over the coals for any glimpse of misbehaviour by "Honest Bob" Jenrick (ty Mr Crace) and the miasma of sleaze will envelop the government for months ahead.

[celedhring]

People have dug up some truly amazing photos of Johnson with this Desmond fellow.