Donald Trump Calls for Barring Muslims From Entering U.S.

[Barrister]

...My point of comparing the Canadian experience with the American experience is that we have never had the kind of demagogue Americans have had... 

Yes, Canada has, of course, had such demagogues.  Réal Caouette was one, for instance.

That's a pretty obscure figure.  I'm a real student of Canadian politics and I had to google his name (though once I did I am familiar, even slightly sympathetic, to his party the Creditistes).  Do you mind me asking where you heard his name?

[Caliga]

Even I don't find Trump amusing anymore.

[frunk]

Hell, I dislike him a little less as a result.

Your opinions of idiots is way too influenced by other idiots.

[viper37]

Now we are even more so. The news and information fed to the right wingers here is simply dramatically different than what you are getting. It would take a long time being immersed in their bubble to understand where they are coming from. But it can happen...see Syt's family.

Partly true.  We do have thrash radios intent on imitating Fox News, Rush Limbaugh and others.
However, most people still receive a decent education and can differentiate between the lies, exageration and the facts.
Something Montrealers are unable to comprehend, apparently.  But I digress.

I believe this to be the difference, a decent public school (though it can be improved a lot) and religious schools that still teach a scientific curriculum (only a few muslim&jewish schools teach creationism as a science, it ain't widespread like in the US).

[viper37]

I think what is happening in the US cannot be generalized to other countries and is certainly very different from what is happening in Canada.   Here the Liberals won the last national election on a platform of bringing in more Syrian refugees in greater numbers and more quickly than the then governing Conservatives. Since we share very similar cultures in other respects I think one has to examine what it is that is creating this difference.

Frankly, I don't know the answer to that riddle.  All the Americans I know personally are very similar to all the Canadians I know, sharing the same or similar faults and virtues.  But Canada has never had its McCarthy or its Trump.

The far right is surging in much of Europe. I think Le Pen's party may have gotten the most votes in the regional french elections, for instance. I think there are significant analogues in other countries.

I also don't think the liberal success in the last Canadian election had much to do with the respective platforms on Syrian refugees, but even so, you are comparing apples to oranges. What helps someone win a general election is not necessarily the same as what gets someone to ~30% in a conservative primary poll. The smart money is on the Democrats winning the general election, so what you are saying about how the party promoting relatively more syrian refugees is likely to be the same scenario in the US.

what really happen in Canada is the opposition forces voted mostly for the Liberals instead of being divided.  The Conservatives themselves lost about 7% of the popular vote.  But instead of sneaking through opposition, they finished second in many ridings.

I am unsure Trudeau will want to change this political system now, or at least, make one in a fair way for all parties.  I fear we will see some kind of system that will give a net advantage to the Liberals 9 times out of 10.

[Barrister]

I think what is happening in the US cannot be generalized to other countries and is certainly very different from what is happening in Canada.   Here the Liberals won the last national election on a platform of bringing in more Syrian refugees in greater numbers and more quickly than the then governing Conservatives. Since we share very similar cultures in other respects I think one has to examine what it is that is creating this difference.

Frankly, I don't know the answer to that riddle.  All the Americans I know personally are very similar to all the Canadians I know, sharing the same or similar faults and virtues.  But Canada has never had its McCarthy or its Trump.

The far right is surging in much of Europe. I think Le Pen's party may have gotten the most votes in the regional french elections, for instance. I think there are significant analogues in other countries.

I also don't think the liberal success in the last Canadian election had much to do with the respective platforms on Syrian refugees, but even so, you are comparing apples to oranges. What helps someone win a general election is not necessarily the same as what gets someone to ~30% in a conservative primary poll. The smart money is on the Democrats winning the general election, so what you are saying about how the party promoting relatively more syrian refugees is likely to be the same scenario in the US.

what really happen in Canada is the opposition forces voted mostly for the Liberals instead of being divided.  The Conservatives themselves lost about 7% of the popular vote.  But instead of sneaking through opposition, they finished second in many ridings.

I am unsure Trudeau will want to change this political system now, or at least, make one in a fair way for all parties.  I fear we will see some kind of system that will give a net advantage to the Liberals 9 times out of 10.

Trudeau has promised to change our electoral system.  And his preferred method is to go with ranked ballots - where you put your 1st, 2nd and third choices on it.  And wouldn't you know, the experts all agree that would be a big win for the Liberals who are often people's second choice...

[mongers]

Does every other thread Have to turn into one about Canadian politics? 

[Barrister]

Does every other thread Have to turn into one about Canadian politics? 

It doesn't have to.  We're just fortunate when they do.

[garbon]

Does every other thread Have to turn into one about Canadian politics? 

You have to pick. Is it all about religion or all about Canada?

[mongers]

Does every other thread Have to turn into one about Canadian politics? 

It doesn't have to.  We're just fortunate when they do.

When some Canucks get together, conversation turns to Canadian politics, seems to be the default option; when Brits engage in casual conversation, we chat about the weather*. 


*If your bleak climate wasn't so unforgiving you'd have some of this.

[Razgovory]

...My point of comparing the Canadian experience with the American experience is that we have never had the kind of demagogue Americans have had... 

Yes, Canada has, of course, had such demagogues.  Réal Caouette was one, for instance.

Demagogue means something different than you think it does then.

Caouette fought for bilingualism in the House of Commons, winning a symbolic victory when he got the Parliament's restaurant to produce bilingual menus.[1] In this, he anticipated the official bilingualism policy that would later be put into effect by Pierre Trudeau.

That has nothing to do with the definition of "demagogue".

[Razgovory]

Now we are even more so. The news and information fed to the right wingers here is simply dramatically different than what you are getting. It would take a long time being immersed in their bubble to understand where they are coming from. But it can happen...see Syt's family.

Partly true.  We do have thrash radios intent on imitating Fox News, Rush Limbaugh and others.
However, most people still receive a decent education and can differentiate between the lies, exageration and the facts.

Well why can't you?

[Barrister]

...My point of comparing the Canadian experience with the American experience is that we have never had the kind of demagogue Americans have had... 

Yes, Canada has, of course, had such demagogues.  Réal Caouette was one, for instance.

Demagogue means something different than you think it does then.

Caouette fought for bilingualism in the House of Commons, winning a symbolic victory when he got the Parliament's restaurant to produce bilingual menus.[1] In this, he anticipated the official bilingualism policy that would later be put into effect by Pierre Trudeau.

That has nothing to do with the definition of "demagogue".

Caouette was leader of the Quebec based Social Credit party (the Creditistes).  Without a big long history lesson, the SoCreds were  very much anti-big banks.  That, unfortunately, often had a tendency to overlap into outright anti-semitism (jews control world finance, don't you know).  I think this is what grumbles is talking about.

[Razgovory]

Caouette was leader of the Quebec based Social Credit party (the Creditistes).  Without a big long history lesson, the SoCreds were  very much anti-big banks.  That, unfortunately, often had a tendency to overlap into outright anti-semitism (jews control world finance, don't you know).  I think this is what grumbles is talking about.

Demagogue is a pejorative term.  It means a person who is a popular speaker that you believe is catering to the worst impulses of the people and is devoid of reason.  That is to say, a popular speaker that you happen to disagree with.

[viper37]

Trudeau has promised to change our electoral system.  And his preferred method is to go with ranked ballots - where you put your 1st, 2nd and third choices on it.  And wouldn't you know, the experts all agree that would be a big win for the Liberals who are often people's second choice...

Sad, but predictable.

I'd prefer a system like France with multiple votes.  We we require deeper changes than that.