What is the best film in the Marvel Cinematic Universe?

[Ideologue]

That's depressing, though I don't think it's exactly true.  Kids watch all those old Disney movies, even the ones that are kind of lame on any level but animation quality, like Cinderella and Snow White.  People still seek out acknowledged classics.  I think most people with any interest in movies beyond "something to do while waiting to socialize/have sex" will have seen a smattering of stuff like Citizen Kane, Casablanca, Vertigo, and the like.  I dunno, maybe you're right.  I mean, my girlfriend, who is getting a Ph.D. in cultural studies, has to be kind of cajoled into watching movies from the 30s, 40s and 50s.  She's a bit more amenable to 70s fare.  (Not so much the 80s. )

Silent movies are pretty much dead to 99% of people, though.

[Ideologue]

Also the filmmaking isn't hideous, like in, for example, the Winter Soldier.  (Dutch angles notwithstanding, of course.)

Winter soldier is way better than both Thor.  I liked them, I've even rewatched them when they were on TV, but they still are not great movie like the Winter Soldier.

I have never seen a compelling argument that Winter Soldier is great.  It's really, really unattractive in its editing and cinematography.  Its subject matter is as obtuse as just about anything could be (the central idea that a fictional intelligence organization which is actually rather hard to pin down as exclusively "American" in the first place is controlled by secret not-Nazis manages to be edgy and incisive in basically no way whatsoever).  Its climax is underwhelming for something that involves as much destruction as it does.  The titular character barely features in the movie, and does little advance either Steve's character or the movie's themes.  It's neither very funny, nor successfully melodramatic (on this count, it really doesn't help that the trailers spoiled the ending).  Some of the martial arts were theoretically cool before the Russos got ahold of them and bled them dry, Bourne-style.  Altogether, I'm extremely bummed out that folks like the Russos (and outright hacks like Alan Taylor) have the keys now.

That said, Community is pretty great.  They should've stuck with that.

[Syt]

She kinda looks like Scorpio from Farscape in that pic.

Now that's a movie I'd watch. On a plane.

I thought Guardians was in many ways a Farscape movie.

[viper37]

That's depressing, though I don't think it's exactly true.  Kids watch all those old Disney movies, even the ones that are kind of lame on any level but animation quality, like Cinderella and Snow White.  People still seek out acknowledged classics.  I think most people with any interest in movies beyond "something to do while waiting to socialize/have sex" will have seen a smattering of stuff like Citizen Kane, Casablanca, Vertigo, and the like.  I dunno, maybe you're right.  I mean, my girlfriend, who is getting a Ph.D. in cultural studies, has to be kind of cajoled into watching movies from the 30s, 40s and 50s.  She's a bit more amenable to 70s fare.  (Not so much the 80s. )

Silent movies are pretty much dead to 99% of people, though.

You said "heavily".  I do not deny that some people watch classics, I deny they form the majority, at all ages.
If I look at the kids around me, they watch Frozen and the singing animals in a barn (don't even know the title, it's always playing when I go to my dad's and the kids are there, I am annoyed and I don't have to endure it every two weeks )

[Jaron]

Wrath of Khan and Undiscovered Country are the only watchable Star Trek movies (of the original franchise).

The others are crap with the exception of the whale movie. That one is an atrocity.

[Josquius]

The whale one is the best one

[viper37]

I have never seen a compelling argument that Winter Soldier is great.  It's really, really unattractive in its editing and cinematography.  Its subject matter is as obtuse as just about anything could be (the central idea that a fictional intelligence organization which is actually rather hard to pin down as exclusively "American" in the first place is controlled by secret not-Nazis manages to be edgy and incisive in basically no way whatsoever).  Its climax is underwhelming for something that involves as much destruction as it does.  The titular character barely features in the movie, and does little advance either Steve's character or the movie's themes.  It's neither very funny, nor successfully melodramatic (on this count, it really doesn't help that the trailers spoiled the ending).  Some of the martial arts were theoretically cool before the Russos got ahold of them and bled them dry, Bourne-style.  Altogether, I'm extremely bummed out that folks like the Russos (and outright hacks like Alan Taylor) have the keys now.

That said, Community is pretty great.  They should've stuck with that.

You take it at face value, a common mistake among reviewers.  And you expect a degree of realism that would almost nihilate all kind of super heroes or science fiction movies.

Yes, there's a super intelligence agency dealing mostly in mutant related problems.  It's never been implied that it is only american though.   Hard to believe that such a thing could exist in the real world?  Well, I have trouble believing that a dude exposed to gamma rays would turn in a green giant bent on destruction albeit still possessing a degree of semi-consciousness.  I also don't think the US military has ever had the capacities to create a super soldier, genetically engineered for war and command

So, yes, you have to accept some incredible things as possible for the movie to work

That said, if you look at it, it follows a classical narrative about the conspiracy being hidden deeply inside the organization.  James Bond had a movie based on this scenario.  Lots of Hollywood movies have this conspiracy thing going, many dealt with US Generals plotting a coup against the President as he was about to sign peace with the Russians.  Some of them got great reviews for that.  So, nothing new or too far fetched here, Marvel movies work because they stay close to a time proven formula.  That's one weak point.

The rest of the movie is one big chase, with Captain America wondering who he can trust or not, and keeping you on your toes as he meet an ennemy he can't defeat just yet.  Again, classical narrative, the hero(es) meet an ennemy too strong for them at first.  It's been like that since the Intrepid Hyena everywhere they make movies

There are very good bits of dialogue between Black Widow and Captain America, stuff that foreshadows the future.  Yes, the ending is deceiving because it's not a standalone movie, it's part of all other movies.  SHIELD is down, and in the next movie, some of the Avengers are trying to recreate something better and it fails miserably, setting the stage for the next big show, the Civil War. It's more like a 2hr tv show than a standalone movie, and I like that.  Writers take their time to do something bigger than just some explosions like a Transformers movie.

The fights are incredibly well done, even better than the Bourne trilogy.  The special effects are top notch and then, there's the message underlying everything about Marvel: absolute power corrupts absolutely.  It also goes deep into Americans traditional fears of a super spy agency that would take control of their government, wich is why they rely on multiple competitive agencies that can not prevent terror attacks and jugulate crime instead.  This is the overall message of the movie: we live in an imperfect world, but the alternative is worst.

[Solmyr]

Lots of people who posted that they haven't seen Ant Man need to go see Ant Man and only then vote. Because that movie approaches Guardians in its level of fun, in a way no other MCU movie does (except possibly Iron Man 1).

[Hamilcar]

Lots of people who posted that they haven't seen Ant Man need to go see Ant Man and only then vote. Because that movie approaches Guardians in its level of fun, in a way no other MCU movie does (except possibly Iron Man 1).

Are any giant ants involved? Do they win?

[Solmyr]

Lots of people who posted that they haven't seen Ant Man need to go see Ant Man and only then vote. Because that movie approaches Guardians in its level of fun, in a way no other MCU movie does (except possibly Iron Man 1).

Are any giant ants involved? Do they win?

Yes.

[Ideologue]

Lots of people who posted that they haven't seen Ant Man need to go see Ant Man and only then vote. Because that movie approaches Guardians in its level of fun, in a way no other MCU movie does (except possibly Iron Man 1).

[Ideologue]

I have never seen a compelling argument that Winter Soldier is great.  It's really, really unattractive in its editing and cinematography.  Its subject matter is as obtuse as just about anything could be (the central idea that a fictional intelligence organization which is actually rather hard to pin down as exclusively "American" in the first place is controlled by secret not-Nazis manages to be edgy and incisive in basically no way whatsoever).  Its climax is underwhelming for something that involves as much destruction as it does.  The titular character barely features in the movie, and does little advance either Steve's character or the movie's themes.  It's neither very funny, nor successfully melodramatic (on this count, it really doesn't help that the trailers spoiled the ending).  Some of the martial arts were theoretically cool before the Russos got ahold of them and bled them dry, Bourne-style.  Altogether, I'm extremely bummed out that folks like the Russos (and outright hacks like Alan Taylor) have the keys now.

That said, Community is pretty great.  They should've stuck with that.

You take it at face value, a common mistake among reviewers.  And you expect a degree of realism that would almost nihilate all kind of super heroes or science fiction movies.

Yes, there's a super intelligence agency dealing mostly in mutant related problems.  It's never been implied that it is only american though.   Hard to believe that such a thing could exist in the real world?  Well, I have trouble believing that a dude exposed to gamma rays would turn in a green giant bent on destruction albeit still possessing a degree of semi-consciousness.  I also don't think the US military has ever had the capacities to create a super soldier, genetically engineered for war and command

So, yes, you have to accept some incredible things as possible for the movie to work

No, it works as a story.  But the power people impute to it is lacking because it doesn't relate to anything directly.  It'd be like if in Three Days of the Condor, the hit on the American Literature Society was actually ordered by Cobra.

That said, if you look at it, it follows a classical narrative about the conspiracy being hidden deeply inside the organization.  James Bond had a movie based on this scenario.  Lots of Hollywood movies have this conspiracy thing going, many dealt with US Generals plotting a coup against the President as he was about to sign peace with the Russians.  Some of them got great reviews for that.  So, nothing new or too far fetched here, Marvel movies work because they stay close to a time proven formula.  That's one weak point.

Yeah, Seven Days in May is good because Burt Lancaster is the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, not a Not-Nazi.  It likewise worked in the actual Cap comic even though the enemy was the Secret Empire because the corrupted official was heavily implied to be Richard Nixon.

The rest of the movie is one big chase, with Captain America wondering who he can trust or not, and keeping you on your toes as he meet an ennemy he can't defeat just yet.  Again, classical narrative, the hero(es) meet an ennemy too strong for them at first.  It's been like that since the Intrepid Hyena everywhere they make movies

Yes, and the obvious villain is the obvious villain.  If it had been Nick Fury, we're talking drama.  If we're talking a stunt-cast Redford who's never been seen before, not so much.  They could've split the difference and gotten William Sadler, and I'd have given them the points they wanted for relevance or edginess or whatever.  That said, the formal elements of the film still would've let it down in the end.

There are very good bits of dialogue between Black Widow and Captain America, stuff that foreshadows the future.  Yes, the ending is deceiving because it's not a standalone movie, it's part of all other movies.  SHIELD is down, and in the next movie, some of the Avengers are trying to recreate something better and it fails miserably, setting the stage for the next big show, the Civil War. It's more like a 2hr tv show than a standalone movie, and I like that.  Writers take their time to do something bigger than just some explosions like a Transformers movie.

The fights are incredibly well done, even better than the Bourne trilogy.  The special effects are top notch and then, there's the message underlying everything about Marvel: absolute power corrupts absolutely.  It also goes deep into Americans traditional fears of a super spy agency that would take control of their government, wich is why they rely on multiple competitive agencies that can not prevent terror attacks and jugulate crime instead.  This is the overall message of the movie: we live in an imperfect world, but the alternative is worst.

OK, the fights are better than the Bourne trilogy.  They're not The Raid or Fury Road, or Dredd or any of the M:I movies, or the urgent quick-cutting of Edge of Tomorrow, or even the interesting anti-style of something like Jack Reacher.  They're a little less enjoyable than, say, Non-Stop.  They're about as muddled as some of the stuff in the climax of Age of Ultron, but at least the Joss Whedon joint wasn't as cutty, even if it was about as indifferently-staged.

I don't think the reason we don't have an overarching spy agency is because of fear of a conglomerated spy dictatorship.  It's just that we created and funded ad hoc agencies for different things, and as bureaucrats tend to do they became little empire-building operations.  Hence why the CIA and NSA both overlap a lot.  The FBI of course goes back a long way, predating modern fears of international terrorism or even anti-Soviet intelligence operations.  Still, they can be evil, and that's fun to see in movies, but the allegory is so distant it loses a lot of impact.  (Not least because since HYDRA has infiltrated everything in The Winter Soldier, we actually need surveillance more than ever, at all levels of government.)

[The Brain]

Lots of people who posted that they haven't seen Ant Man need to go see Ant Man and only then vote. Because that movie approaches Guardians in its level of fun, in a way no other MCU movie does (except possibly Iron Man 1).

I refuse to see it until the name is corrected to Mant.

[dps]

That's depressing, though I don't think it's exactly true.  Kids watch all those old Disney movies, even the ones that are kind of lame on any level but animation quality, like Cinderella and Snow White.  People still seek out acknowledged classics.  I think most people with any interest in movies beyond "something to do while waiting to socialize/have sex" will have seen a smattering of stuff like Citizen Kane, Casablanca, Vertigo, and the like.  I dunno, maybe you're right.  I mean, my girlfriend, who is getting a Ph.D. in cultural studies, has to be kind of cajoled into watching movies from the 30s, 40s and 50s.  She's a bit more amenable to 70s fare.  (Not so much the 80s. )

Silent movies are pretty much dead to 99% of people, though.

You said "heavily".  I do not deny that some people watch classics, I deny they form the majority, at all ages.

I'm not sure that there's ever been any one movie that the majority of people have seen, even if you just restrict it to the West and leave out the rest of the world, so I don't think that means anything as a standard.

Also, more people watch movies on TV or on DVD than in the theater, at least in the US.  That skews things somewhat towards older movies. If you asked all Americans to list the movies they've seen in the last 3 months, I'd be somewhat surprised if any of the top 10 movies on the list were actually in theaters during that time.  Heck, half of 'em would probably be the last 5 James Bond movies to be shown on TBS.

[DontSayBanana]

Natalie Wood.

Nah, Kat Dennings.