The Off Topic Topic

[mongers]

I'm in the money.

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[Sheilbh]

I love how even the best medieval artists were on my level.

I always like how scatological they are. Like toilet humour is something enduringly human - Roman graffiti, Medieval clerks etc. From the same account:

Dorsa Amir
@DorsaAmir

Patron: Can you just add a big letter 'F' right at the start here?

Medieval artist: You got it, boss.

Dorsa Amir
@DorsaAmir
Composer: Ok and right about here in the song is a rest so maybe just leave it blank.

Medieval artist: I've got a better idea.

[Sheilbh]

I love American elections - this one has been more draining than joyous - but normally I love the Barnum-esque raucous campaigns, especially when there are primaries. But I find the election nights a bit soul-less (but certainly not missing any flashing graphics or Wolf Blitzer SHOUTING) and less fun. At heart I think I've been conditioned by British election nights (which are more fun than the campaigns) and it just doesn't feel right if you don't have a Cabinet minister losing their job in a leisure centre

[Josquius]

British elections were more fun when fundamental rights didnt rest on them.

[celedhring]

I don't know if it's because of age or because things are really going to hell in a handbasket, but certainly as the years pass I increasingly look at elections with dread.

[Tamas]

I don't know if it's because of age or because things are really going to hell in a handbasket, but certainly as the years pass I increasingly look at elections with dread.

I think there used to be more perceived consensus on the basic building blocks of the individual societies so it felt less decisive. I do suspect that consensus was more perceived than real even then, thanks to media technology at the time, i.e. the moderate views dominated discourse

[The Brain]

I don't know if it's because of age or because things are really going to hell in a handbasket, but certainly as the years pass I increasingly look at elections with dread.

Democracy still beats the alternative.

[Sheilbh]

I don't know if it's because of age or because things are really going to hell in a handbasket, but certainly as the years pass I increasingly look at elections with dread.

I still enjoy elections. In part I just really like democracy and think we should all be voting all the time and, generally speaking, the people are always eventually right - I particularly love American Presidential campaigns, especially primaries. And there are still minor joys like the first reference to "crucial Waukesha county", I always love the county map in the US.

But the experience of watching them has become, frankly, ageing in recent years.

I think there used to be more perceived consensus on the basic building blocks of the individual societies so it felt less decisive. I do suspect that consensus was more perceived than real even then, thanks to media technology at the time, i.e. the moderate views dominated discourse

Maybe. The 80s elections, I think would've felt pretty decisive and were not between moderates - Thatcherites on one side and literal Trotskyists on the other. And, of course, in the US context the golden age of bipartisan cooperation and consensus was built on the back of segregation and not sharing the pie with African-Americans, Mexican-Americans, women or gays - who knew it would be so easy to establish prosperous consensus if you limit it to under half the population

I think the Cold War probably also had a sort of disciplining effect on parties and electorates - and that might re-emerge with China, though hopefully not. I'm not sure that what we have now is necessarily worse than the omnipresent existential dread of two nuclear powers going toe-to-toe. But it's something I often wonder - how much of the crazy did the internet create and how much did it just unleash. When I look on Facebook it's always alarming to see the number of school friends who, in between posting wholesome family updates, are into absolutely crackers conspiracy theories about 5G etc. I don't know if that was always there and the internet has just enabled all the village nutters to connect, or if it's actually an expanding view because of the internet.

To be honest UK elections from 2010-19 haven't felt decisive to me, they've felt confused and sort of like I imagine the 1970s ones were just almost underwhelming. Underwhelming candidates who don't excite voters and generally got underwhelming results.

I'm still not sure about 2019 for a number of factors despite the decisive seeming result. Although obviously for me the best election was 1997 probably because it's the first I can remember, but everyone was so excited to end 18 years of Tory rule, Michael Portillo and various other Tories (including every Tory in Scotland) losing their seats - "a new dawn has broken, has it not?"

[Tamas]

how much of the crazy did the internet create and how much did it just unleash.

From my personal experience it is about 80% unleash, at least. The 20% are people who just kinda' needed confirmation before committing.

The "clueless liberal elites" shtick was correct in the sense that truly I think the urban people in their high-education bubbles had no idea about the level of discourse among less privileged demographics until Facebook and Twitter revealed it to them.

[Josquius]

I would disagree with that somewhat.
It's the conservative elites that tend to be out of touch, coming from money generation upon generation.
The "metropolitan Liberal elites" however tend to be from a working class background but have studied and worked hard, fulfilling their parents working class dream of your kids having a better life than you.
The Conservative elites don't like this. That even the elites were starting to care about the poor meant they had to change tack in the late 70s/80s and it has been downhill since then.
Though correct to the extent that people needed to go further from home more often in order to get a decent job has left a detachment between those left behind and those who got out. I would say here though the problem is less that the winners are unaware of how things are back home and more people back home are growing up without awareness of paths out, and are easy prey for tricksters with simple solutions to complex problems.

[Admiral Yi]

The Metropolitan Liberal Elites look a lot like Squeeze. 

[Josquius]

The Metropolitan Liberal Elites look a lot like Squeeze. 

I'm (sadly?) all too aware of the shit people in my hometown say. I don't live that far away and in a different thoroughly working class area.
I called brexit remember

[DGuller]

I don't know if it's because of age or because things are really going to hell in a handbasket, but certainly as the years pass I increasingly look at elections with dread.

Same here.  The older I get, the more stressful it is.  The next election is going be even more stressful, because I just aged 20 years overnight.

[The Brain]

I don't know if it's because of age or because things are really going to hell in a handbasket, but certainly as the years pass I increasingly look at elections with dread.

Same here.  The older I get, the more stressful it is.  The next election is going be even more stressful, because I just aged 20 years overnight.

What difference does a third term really make though?

[Maladict]

I don't know if it's because of age or because things are really going to hell in a handbasket, but certainly as the years pass I increasingly look at elections with dread.

Same here.  The older I get, the more stressful it is.  The next election is going be even more stressful, because I just aged 20 years overnight.

Yeah, elections used to be more like sports matches, you cheer or booh and then get on with your life. Now they leave a scar.