The Off Topic Topic

[Maladict]

And Uri Geller still walks the earth, there truly is no god. RIP

[derspiess]

How did you the know the name of the mouse?

[DGuller]

I have a bad case of heartburn this morning, so took some Zantac I had lying around in my medical cabinet.  Then I googled to see whether there were more effective solutions, and found out that Zantac has actually been pulled from the market due to contamination with carcinogen.  

I thought okay, maybe a new batch got contaminated, luckily mine was pretty old.  Actually, that turns out to be much worse, as the carcinogen concentration increases with time and temperature of storage.  Yikes. I wish things like that were more widely publicized.  I hope one old Zantac 75 pill won't be too toxic.

[Syt]

Poland constitutional court bans abortions due to fetal defects.

https://www.dw.com/en/polands-top-court-rules-against-abortions-due-to-fetal-defects/a-55360700

Poland's top court rules against abortions due to fetal defects

The court ruled that allowing abortions due to fetal defects is unconstitutional, banning one of the last remaining legal grounds for the procedure in Poland. The country has one of the most restrictive laws in Europe.

Poland's Constitutional Court on Thursday ruled that a law allowing abortion due to fetal defects is unconstitutional.

Chief justice Julia Przylebska said in the ruling that existing legislation allowing the abortion of malformed fetuses was "incompatible" with the constitution.

The ruling on the country's abortion law, which is already one of the most restrictive in Europe, further restricts abortion access in the heavily Catholic country.

After the ruling goes into effect, abortion will only be permissible in the case of rape, incest or a threat to the mother's health and life. Just two judges out of the 13-member court did not back the majority ruling.

The ruling came after conservatives from the governing right-wing Law and Justice (PiS) party submitted a motion to the tribunal, asking them to review the law.

The ruling lays the legal framework for PiS lawmakers to approve draft legislation that would ban the termination of pregnancies in the case of congenital defects — one of the few instances under which a pregnancy could still legally be terminated in the country.

Polish lawmakers considered legislation earlier this year that would have imposed a near-total ban on abortion by outlawing the procedure in the event of fetal abnormalities — including if a fetus has no chance of survival.

The introduction of the latest restrictions subsequently spurred a nationwide outcry over women's rights. The NGO Akcja Demokracja (Action Democracy) said that more than 210,000 people had signed its petition against the PiS-proposed changes.

Abortion rights groups held protests earlier this week, with demonstrators gathering on Thursday in front of the Constitutional Court building.

Critics say Poland's top court may have acted on the ruling PiS party's behalf, as the panel is primarily comprised of PiS-appointed judges.

The party has denied trying to influence rulings, and says that its reforms to the judicial system only aim to make the courts more efficient and fair.

Fewer than 2,000 legal abortions take place annually, in the country of 38 million people. However, rights groups estimate that up to 200,000 procedures are performed illegally or abroad. Attempts to tighten the abortion law in 2016 were scrapped after tens of thousands took to the streets in protest.

If I read this correctly, then even if the fetus is not viable, it must be carried to term following the ruling.

[Sheilbh]

Do you know if there's a large number of Polish women going to Germany for abortions? I think when it was very strictly restricted in Ireland and Northern Ireland the estimates where that something like 25-30,000 women had travelled to England for abortions.

[Syt]

I don't know but I wouldn't be surprised.

[celedhring]

Do you know if there's a large number of Polish women going to Germany for abortions? I think when it was very strictly restricted in Ireland and Northern Ireland the estimates where that something like 25-30,000 women had travelled to England for abortions.

London was famously a destination for Spanish pregnant women that wanted to abort, until it was legalised in the 1980s.

EDIT: according to google-fu, 200,000 Spanish women aborted in the UK from 1974-1988

[Sheilbh]

Do you know if there's a large number of Polish women going to Germany for abortions? I think when it was very strictly restricted in Ireland and Northern Ireland the estimates where that something like 25-30,000 women had travelled to England for abortions.

London was famously a destination for Spanish pregnant women that wanted to abort, until it was legalised in the 1980s.

EDIT: according to google-fu, 200,000 Spanish women aborted in the UK from 1974-1988

I had no idea about that. That's really interesting - Ireland makes sense because of geography but I didn't think our laws were actually that liberal so coming from further, like Spain, is a surprise to me.

I suppose our laws don't need to be super-liberal they just need to be more liberal than alternatives like France.

[celedhring]

Do you know if there's a large number of Polish women going to Germany for abortions? I think when it was very strictly restricted in Ireland and Northern Ireland the estimates where that something like 25-30,000 women had travelled to England for abortions.

London was famously a destination for Spanish pregnant women that wanted to abort, until it was legalised in the 1980s.

EDIT: according to google-fu, 200,000 Spanish women aborted in the UK from 1974-1988

I had no idea about that. That's really interesting - Ireland makes sense because of geography but I didn't think our laws were actually that liberal so coming from further, like Spain, is a surprise to me.

I suppose our laws don't need to be super-liberal they just need to be more liberal than alternatives like France.

According to my mom (she had a friend that did it), it was because France's term limit was too short and gave little room once you knew you were pregnant. UK had a much longer term.

[Syt]

Been listening to a slightly goth-y playlist today. I was caught off guard a bit by the outro of The Dresden Dolls' excellent Good Day where they sing this old ditty while apparently jumping rope:

"Now the war is over, Mussolini's dead
He wants to go to heaven with a crown upon his head
The Lord says no, he's got to stay below
All dressed up and no where to go."

https://youtu.be/ZbuW58gxRDQ?t=331

[Josquius]

I've covered before that my grandmother died due to abortion being illegal in the UK.
So fuck the anti abortion scum. There's a special place in hell waiting for them.

[grumbler]

I've covered before that my grandmother died due to abortion being illegal in the UK.
So fuck the anti abortion scum. There's a special place in hell waiting for them.

They aren't anti-abortion types, mostly.  You can tell because most of them (se Poland) they favor abortion in cases of rape and incest (i.e. where the woman didn't have sex voluntarily). They are anti-sex in those cases.  They view unwanted pregnancy as the just punishment for having sex without wanting to create a child.  They are the same people who are against birth control (which you cannot oppose while opposing abortion unless you are actually anti-sex).

I am against abortion in the big picture of things, because it is dangerous (though not as dangerous as childbirth) and uses medical resources that could, in an ideal world, be spent on other things.  But I am very much in favor of choice, since we don't live in my ideal world.

There are certainly some sincere people who favor birth control and don't make exceptions in their opposition to abortion for rape and incest (some of them post here).  I don't think that there is a place in hell for them.  I just think that they are wrong, not that they are evil.

[Barrister]

I've covered before that my grandmother died due to abortion being illegal in the UK.
So fuck the anti abortion scum. There's a special place in hell waiting for them.

There are all kind of anecdotes you can tell on both sides.

I think I mentioned my identical twin Down syndrome nephews.  When my sister-in-law was pregnant it was suggested, or even strongly suggested, that she abort one or both babies.  They're both 5 now and adorable.

[Josquius]

I've covered before that my grandmother died due to abortion being illegal in the UK.
So fuck the anti abortion scum. There's a special place in hell waiting for them.

There are all kind of anecdotes you can tell on both sides.

I think I mentioned my identical twin Down syndrome nephews.  When my sister-in-law was pregnant it was suggested, or even strongly suggested, that she abort one or both babies.  They're both 5 now and adorable.

Don't get how that is an anti abortion argument though.

. If people do choose to have a kid with downs syndrome that is up to them.
It's a huge lifetime commitment however and people should have the choice when in possession of all the facts whether to go ahead with this or not.

I hate it when you osee the anti abortion groups having convinced some poor guy with downs to speak up about how he has a right to exist and all that. As if people are talking about killing actual living people. The two don't compare.

[Barrister]

I've covered before that my grandmother died due to abortion being illegal in the UK.
So fuck the anti abortion scum. There's a special place in hell waiting for them.

There are all kind of anecdotes you can tell on both sides.

I think I mentioned my identical twin Down syndrome nephews.  When my sister-in-law was pregnant it was suggested, or even strongly suggested, that she abort one or both babies.  They're both 5 now and adorable.

Don't get how that is an anti abortion argument though.

. If people do choose to have a kid with downs syndrome that is up to them.
It's a huge lifetime commitment however and people should have the choice when in possession of all the facts whether to go ahead with this or not.

I hate it when you osee the anti abortion groups having convinced some poor guy with downs to speak up about how he has a right to exist and all that. As if people are talking about killing actual living people. The two don't compare.

Apparently in some European countries the abortion rate for fetuses found to have Down Syndrome exceeds 90%.  In Denmark it's 98%.  It's almost genocide.