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Dispatches from the State Ministry of Truth

Started by Jacob, September 22, 2014, 10:05:27 AM

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jimmy olsen

Quote from: garbon on September 22, 2014, 09:35:04 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on September 22, 2014, 09:15:06 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 22, 2014, 09:04:53 PM
Mono knows how to deal with such troublemakers  WERE LATE FOR DINNER
UNLIMITED BREADSTICKS AT OLIVE GARDEN

:w00t:

And I don't even need an additional reason to want to run over bicyclists.

Stay classy Languish. Stay classy.

Yeah, lets cheer as innocent people are killed or maimed.  :rolleyes:
It is far better for the truth to tear my flesh to pieces, then for my soul to wander through darkness in eternal damnation.

Jet: So what kind of woman is she? What's Julia like?
Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
--------------------------------------------
1 Karma Chameleon point

Admiral Yi

Where the hell is that vid from?


garbon

Ah, even better. Freaking Critical Mass. <_<
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Martinus

#19
Quote from: Valmy on September 22, 2014, 09:07:54 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on September 22, 2014, 08:55:16 PM
It is important to note that a criminal record is a huge deal in HK, even for something as minor as disruption of the peace.  No professional licences, no financial jobs, no government jobs, no security jobs, etc.  This is the reason why the organisers of the protests don't want anyone below 40 to participate in road-blocking.  Doesn't stop people from trying though. 

Even to preserve Hong Kong's government itself?  Wild.

Anyway what happened to the Mono who likes the Status Quo?  You seem delighted to see it get torn down around you.

Mono does not like the Status Quo, he is just a coward. He will support whoever holds the whip. That is why he will never achieve much of the wealth and status he craves - with that attitude he will always be a follower.

Martinus

Quote from: garbon on September 22, 2014, 10:22:18 PM
Ah, even better. Freaking Critical Mass. <_<

You get that too? My favourite part is that it is on Friday evenings here, when everybody is trying to get out of the city.

Monoriu

Quote from: Martinus on September 23, 2014, 12:34:28 AM


Mono does not like the Status Quo, he is just a coward. He will support whoever holds the whip. That is why he will never achieve much of the wealth and status he craves - with that attitude he will always be a follower.

It is a bit more complicated than that.  Not everybody in HK supports the movement for full democracy.  It isn't like we are in economic trouble.  We are still one of the wealthiest cities in the world, with a clean and effective government.  The real argument is between the haves and the have-nots.  The have-nots want a welfare state, which the government will not grant.  Their solution is to fight for democracy, remove the government and install someone who will approve the welfare state. 

As a civil servant, I already have a job-related pension.  A welfare state will not benefit me. 

Eddie Teach

As a civil servant, you're already benefiting from the welfare state.
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

jimmy olsen

#23
Quote from: Monoriu on September 23, 2014, 01:18:13 AM
Quote from: Martinus on September 23, 2014, 12:34:28 AM


Mono does not like the Status Quo, he is just a coward. He will support whoever holds the whip. That is why he will never achieve much of the wealth and status he craves - with that attitude he will always be a follower.

It is a bit more complicated than that.  Not everybody in HK supports the movement for full democracy.  It isn't like we are in economic trouble.  We are still one of the wealthiest cities in the world, with a clean and effective government.  The real argument is between the haves and the have-nots.  The have-nots want a welfare state, which the government will not grant.  Their solution is to fight for democracy, remove the government and install someone who will approve the welfare state. 

As a civil servant, I already have a job-related pension.  A welfare state will not benefit me.

Yes it would and it's obvious why. Think back on who first instituted a welfare system, the Kaiser Reich. Were the autocratic leaders of that society actually concerned with the well being of the have nots? Of course not, however they realized that without a welfare system society would become unstable and there would be considerable chance for a violent overthrow of the current system. By opposing a welfare state you make it all the more likely that violence will break out and you will end up out of a job or up against wall.
It is far better for the truth to tear my flesh to pieces, then for my soul to wander through darkness in eternal damnation.

Jet: So what kind of woman is she? What's Julia like?
Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
--------------------------------------------
1 Karma Chameleon point

Monoriu

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on September 23, 2014, 01:22:07 AM
As a civil servant, you're already benefiting from the welfare state.

HK is already a welfare state, with one exception.  We already have free and compulsory education, free public health care, and public housing for half the population.  The only thing lacking is retirement benefits.  Traditionally, children provide for their parents in Chinese societies.  But as the birthrate declines in recent decades, that is no longer practical.  The government has steadfastly refused to provide a public pension.  To do so means raising the income tax by a few percentage points. 

Martinus

I don't think I can have respect for someone who believes that the only reason to have a democracy is to have a welfare state.

Razgovory

I have seen the same ideas from American conservatives and libertarians.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Monoriu

Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 23, 2014, 01:23:08 AM

Yes it would and it's obvious why. Think back on who first instituted a welfare system, the Kaiser Reich. Were the autocratic leaders of that society actually concerned with the well being of the have nots? Of course not, however they realized that without a welfare system society would become unstable and there would be considerable chance for a violent overthrow of the current system. By opposing a welfare state you make it all the more likely that violence will break out and you will end up out of a job or up against wall.

I am a have-not on the side of the haves.  So I win either way :contract: 

Tamas

Quote from: Martinus on September 23, 2014, 02:44:26 AM
I don't think I can have respect for someone who believes that the only reason to have a democracy is to have a welfare state.

So you are no longer on the left, then?

grumbler

Quote from: Monoriu on September 23, 2014, 04:04:04 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 23, 2014, 01:23:08 AM

Yes it would and it's obvious why. Think back on who first instituted a welfare system, the Kaiser Reich. Were the autocratic leaders of that society actually concerned with the well being of the have nots? Of course not, however they realized that without a welfare system society would become unstable and there would be considerable chance for a violent overthrow of the current system. By opposing a welfare state you make it all the more likely that violence will break out and you will end up out of a job or up against wall.

I am a have-not on the side of the haves.  So I win either way :contract:

Well played!
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!