Dispatches from the State Ministry of Truth

[jimmy olsen]

Mono knows how to deal with such troublemakers  WERE LATE FOR DINNER

UNLIMITED BREADSTICKS AT OLIVE GARDEN

And I don't even need an additional reason to want to run over bicyclists.

Stay classy Languish. Stay classy.

Yeah, lets cheer as innocent people are killed or maimed. 

[Admiral Yi]

Where the hell is that vid from?

[CountDeMoney]

Where the hell is that vid from?

Brazil, of course.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1361769/Sickening-moment-car-ploughs-cyclists-Brazils-Critical-Mass-event-protest-motorists.html

[garbon]

Ah, even better. Freaking Critical Mass.

[Martinus]

It is important to note that a criminal record is a huge deal in HK, even for something as minor as disruption of the peace.  No professional licences, no financial jobs, no government jobs, no security jobs, etc.  This is the reason why the organisers of the protests don't want anyone below 40 to participate in road-blocking.  Doesn't stop people from trying though. 

Even to preserve Hong Kong's government itself?  Wild.

Anyway what happened to the Mono who likes the Status Quo?  You seem delighted to see it get torn down around you.

Mono does not like the Status Quo, he is just a coward. He will support whoever holds the whip. That is why he will never achieve much of the wealth and status he craves - with that attitude he will always be a follower.

[Martinus]

Ah, even better. Freaking Critical Mass.

You get that too? My favourite part is that it is on Friday evenings here, when everybody is trying to get out of the city.

[Monoriu]

Mono does not like the Status Quo, he is just a coward. He will support whoever holds the whip. That is why he will never achieve much of the wealth and status he craves - with that attitude he will always be a follower.

It is a bit more complicated than that.  Not everybody in HK supports the movement for full democracy.  It isn't like we are in economic trouble.  We are still one of the wealthiest cities in the world, with a clean and effective government.  The real argument is between the haves and the have-nots.  The have-nots want a welfare state, which the government will not grant.  Their solution is to fight for democracy, remove the government and install someone who will approve the welfare state. 

As a civil servant, I already have a job-related pension.  A welfare state will not benefit me. 

[Eddie Teach]

As a civil servant, you're already benefiting from the welfare state.

[jimmy olsen]

Mono does not like the Status Quo, he is just a coward. He will support whoever holds the whip. That is why he will never achieve much of the wealth and status he craves - with that attitude he will always be a follower.

It is a bit more complicated than that.  Not everybody in HK supports the movement for full democracy.  It isn't like we are in economic trouble.  We are still one of the wealthiest cities in the world, with a clean and effective government.  The real argument is between the haves and the have-nots.  The have-nots want a welfare state, which the government will not grant.  Their solution is to fight for democracy, remove the government and install someone who will approve the welfare state. 

As a civil servant, I already have a job-related pension.  A welfare state will not benefit me.

Yes it would and it's obvious why. Think back on who first instituted a welfare system, the Kaiser Reich. Were the autocratic leaders of that society actually concerned with the well being of the have nots? Of course not, however they realized that without a welfare system society would become unstable and there would be considerable chance for a violent overthrow of the current system. By opposing a welfare state you make it all the more likely that violence will break out and you will end up out of a job or up against wall.

[Monoriu]

As a civil servant, you're already benefiting from the welfare state.

HK is already a welfare state, with one exception.  We already have free and compulsory education, free public health care, and public housing for half the population.  The only thing lacking is retirement benefits.  Traditionally, children provide for their parents in Chinese societies.  But as the birthrate declines in recent decades, that is no longer practical.  The government has steadfastly refused to provide a public pension.  To do so means raising the income tax by a few percentage points. 

[Martinus]

I don't think I can have respect for someone who believes that the only reason to have a democracy is to have a welfare state.

[Razgovory]

I have seen the same ideas from American conservatives and libertarians.

[Monoriu]

Yes it would and it's obvious why. Think back on who first instituted a welfare system, the Kaiser Reich. Were the autocratic leaders of that society actually concerned with the well being of the have nots? Of course not, however they realized that without a welfare system society would become unstable and there would be considerable chance for a violent overthrow of the current system. By opposing a welfare state you make it all the more likely that violence will break out and you will end up out of a job or up against wall.

I am a have-not on the side of the haves.  So I win either way  

[Tamas]

I don't think I can have respect for someone who believes that the only reason to have a democracy is to have a welfare state.

So you are no longer on the left, then?

[grumbler]

Yes it would and it's obvious why. Think back on who first instituted a welfare system, the Kaiser Reich. Were the autocratic leaders of that society actually concerned with the well being of the have nots? Of course not, however they realized that without a welfare system society would become unstable and there would be considerable chance for a violent overthrow of the current system. By opposing a welfare state you make it all the more likely that violence will break out and you will end up out of a job or up against wall.

I am a have-not on the side of the haves.  So I win either way

Well played!