Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-23 and Invasion

[DGuller]

You know what?  I have to admit that I was wrong about US military spending, and how it was excessive.  This whole Ukraine business shows that if you don't spend on your military, your enemy will, and then you'll wish you didn't stop spending on it.  It's a shame that the one non-dysfunctional military in the whole of NATO has spent so much of its war readiness on counter-productive wars of choice.

[Eddie Teach]

Too bad there's not some way the Russians could take over France, Germany, Italy, and the Low Countries while leaving the Poles, Czechs, Hungarians, etc. alone.

Hungary deserves it more than any of them. 

[Sheilbh]

Part of me would actually almost enjoy watching NATO fall apart, just to watch those pretentious European assholes take all that Russian cock up the ass, in pure 1945 rapey-like style;  unfortunately, that would mean the poor eastern Europeans would have to go through bullshit all over again, and they don't deserve that. 

Too bad there's not some way the Russians could take over France, Germany, Italy, and the Low Countries while leaving the Poles, Czechs, Hungarians, etc. alone.

Don't drag France into this

[Zanza]

What's the recent story about Germany not selling or providing tanks to one of the Baltics? Latvia maybe?

Lithuania wanted some of the most modern IFV. Germany doesn't have enough of these for its own needs right now, so we could not deliver. They will get self-propelled howitzers though. So total non-story IMO.

[CountDeMoney]

It's a shame that the one non-dysfunctional military in the whole of NATO has spent so much of its war readiness on counter-productive wars of choice.

Unlike Afghanistan, Iraq was completely unnecessary, but conflict does provide benefits:  it gives invaluable experience to noncoms and junior officers, it spurs weapons systems development and it promotes doctrinal refinement.  Even the smallest armed services in NATO were beneficiaries of wartime deployment.  Even Russia, for all its conventional arms sloppiness, has earned valuable experience from Chechnya, Georgia and Ukraine.

By contrast, look at the People's Liberation Army:  it's largest mobilization since the Korean War was Tiananmen Square--it was even larger than the border conflict with Vietnam in 1979.  That means the PLA has multiple generations of active duty NCO, junior officer, and staff officer and political leadership with absolutely zero combat experience, with weapons systems that have never seen the light of day beyond the testing range or as export versions in the hands of monkey client states overseas, and an operational doctrine that quite frankly has not matured beyond Huai-Hai.  That will not serve them well at all in any conflict in the foreseeable future.

[DGuller]

It's a shame that the one non-dysfunctional military in the whole of NATO has spent so much of its war readiness on counter-productive wars of choice.

Unlike Afghanistan, Iraq was completely unnecessary, but conflict does provide benefits:  it gives invaluable experience to noncoms and junior officers, it spurs weapons systems development and it promotes doctrinal refinement.  Even the smallest armed services in NATO were beneficiaries of wartime deployment.  Even Russia, for all its conventional arms sloppiness, has earned valuable experience from Chechnya, Georgia and Ukraine.

By contrast, look at the People's Liberation Army:  it's largest mobilization since the Korean War was Tiananmen Square--it was even larger than the border conflict with Vietnam in 1979.  That means the PLA has multiple generations of active duty NCO, junior officer, and staff officer and political leadership with absolutely zero combat experience, with weapons systems that have never seen the light of day beyond the testing range or as export versions in the hands of monkey client states overseas, and an operational doctrine that quite frankly has not matured beyond Huai-Hai.  That will not serve them well at all in any conflict in the foreseeable future.

That is true, but what use is that experience if you exhaust both the armed forces and the public opinion to the point that your ability to engage in necessary tough fights is in question?

[CountDeMoney]

That is true, but what use is that experience if you exhaust both the armed forces and the public opinion to the point that your ability to engage in necessary tough fights is in question?

I see no exhaustion of anything that affects the ability to engage in "necessary tough fights".

[DGuller]

That is true, but what use is that experience if you exhaust both the armed forces and the public opinion to the point that your ability to engage in necessary tough fights is in question?

I see no exhaustion of anything that affects the ability to engage in "necessary tough fights".

If Russia invades the Baltics, how many units can we dedicate to the theater?  And don't say we'll just nuke them, that's bullshit.

[Razgovory]

"We" like you and Seedy or "We" like you and Seedy and Siege?

[CountDeMoney]

If Russia invades the Baltics, how many units can we dedicate to the theater?  And don't say we'll just nuke them, that's bullshit.

But that's exactly what would happen, numbnuts.  Actually, they would probably use their nukes first, once NATO forces have struck assets on Russian soil.

[DGuller]

If Russia invades the Baltics, how many units can we dedicate to the theater?  And don't say we'll just nuke them, that's bullshit.

But that's exactly what would happen, numbnuts.  Actually, they would probably use their nukes first, once NATO forces have struck assets on Russian soil.

We would escalate skirmishes with little green men straight into the destruction of civilization as we know it?  I have my doubts.

[Admiral Yi]

If Russia invades the Baltics, how many units can we dedicate to the theater?  And don't say we'll just nuke them, that's bullshit.

I'm guessing around 6 divisions.

[Martinus]

I don't think NATO would escalate but we were through this scenario before. Poland would help Lithuania against little green men and if Russia then responded openly NATO would have no choice but to either strike at Russia or disband.

That being said I doubt Russia would use Ukrainian scenario in Baltics or Poland. It would be more of a cyber warfare, sabotage and the like.

[grumbler]

But that's exactly what would happen, numbnuts.  Actually, they would probably use their nukes first, once NATO forces have struck assets on Russian soil.

Exactly.  How many times do we have to fight these nuclear wars before people will believe that they are natural and inevitable?

[CountDeMoney]

But that's exactly what would happen, numbnuts.  Actually, they would probably use their nukes first, once NATO forces have struck assets on Russian soil.

Exactly.  How many times do we have to fight these nuclear wars before people will believe that they are natural and inevitable?

Unfortunately, you've been too indoctrinated over the course of your career by the Military-Industrial Complex, which has convinced you--contrary to every possible example since Clauswitz--that Great Power warfare can be limited and contained.  Dickhead.