Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-23 and Invasion

[Legbiter]

Yeah, the Ukrainians army is probably screwed if russia invades. Hopefully any armaments the west provided will at least bloody the Russians. The occupation is another matter.

A measly thank you for Biden's crackhead son Burisma tenure. Individual Ukrainian platoons will score some hits though.

[Syt]

The more things change?

[Syt]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60443504

Ukraine conflict: Rebels declare general mobilisation as fighting grows

Ukraine's Russian-backed breakaway eastern territories have ordered military mobilisations amid a deadly escalation in fighting.

Men of fighting age in the self-declared people's republics of Donetsk and Luhansk are being put on stand-by.

Monitors report a "dramatic increase" in attacks along the line dividing rebel and government forces.

A Ukrainian soldier was killed by shelling on Saturday morning, the first such death reported in weeks.

US President Joe Biden says he is convinced Russia will invade Ukraine, an allegation Moscow denies.

His Defence Secretary, Lloyd Austin, said Russian forces were beginning to "uncoil and move closer" to the border with Ukraine.

In the German city of Munich, US Vice-President Kamala Harris told a security conference that if Russia did invade, the US and its allies would impose a "significant and unprecedented economic cost", targeting its financial institutions and key industries, as well as those who aided and abetted such an invasion.

Western nations have accused Russia of trying to stage a crisis in the breakaway regions to give it a reason to launch an offensive.

The US estimates there are 169,000-190,000 Russian personnel massed along Ukraine's borders, a figure that includes separatist fighters in Donetsk and Luhansk.

Russian President Vladimir Putin, who is overseeing major drills of Russia's strategic nuclear missile forces on Saturday, has said the situation in eastern Ukraine is deteriorating.

He said he remained willing to discuss the crisis with Western leaders, but accused them of ignoring Russia's security concerns.

Ukraine, a former Soviet republic with historic ties to Russia, is not a member of Nato or the European Union but has close relations with both.

Accurate figures are difficult to establish but as many as 3.5 million people live in the two rebel territories, which broke away in 2014 after Ukraine's pro-Russian government was overthrown. Since then, at least 720,000 have acquired Russian citizenship, according to Russian media.

A number of civilians have been evacuated from the rebel territories to neighbouring Russia, with at least 6,500 leaving Donetsk, according to the separatists.

One person in rebel-controlled Luhansk told BBC News on condition of anonymity that the separatists were trying to stir panic deliberately and said local people were wary of evacuating.

Another in rebel-controlled Donetsk confirmed that some people were leaving and added, "People just want that somebody finally can take control and responsibility for these separatist-held territories whoever it would be - Russia or Ukraine".

Details of the Ukrainian soldier's death were not given but it was contained in a report that spoke of artillery, mortar and grenade attacks by the separatists.

International observers from the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe have been monitoring a truce between the separatists and government forces, who have fought a bloody war at a cost of at least 14,000 lives.

On Friday, the observer mission reported "a dramatic increase in kinetic activity along the contact line in eastern Ukraine, equal to the numbers of ceasefire violations reported" before July 2020.

Its latest daily report - for Thursday - registered 870 ceasefire violations, including 654 explosions. It also confirmed a kindergarten had been damaged earlier in the week in government-controlled territory.

Late on Friday, President Biden said he believed Mr Putin had decided to launch an invasion of Ukraine.

"As of this moment I am convinced that he has made the decision," he said. Previously, the president and his top officials have said they did not know whether this was the case.

[Tamas]

It is very frustrating how blatantly the Russians go through their very standard and extremely transparent playbook. Thousands maybe tens of thousands will die, the life of millions will be ruined, and all we can do to punish -not prevent- it, is to ruin the lives of more millions of Russians via economic sanctions.

[Maladict]

It is very frustrating how blatantly the Russians go through their very standard and extremely transparent playbook. Thousands maybe tens of thousands will die, the life of millions will be ruined, and all we can do to punish -not prevent- it, is to ruin the lives of more millions of Russians via economic sanctions.

We could do more, we just don't want to.

[Sheilbh]

Tamas was totally right incidentally that one of the side-effects of this crisis is that Russia's basically absorbing Belarus. The troops therer for exercises are not leaving any time soon according to statements from Belarussian and Russian figures.

That would normally be a big deal. Lukashenko's spent his entire time in charge being very close to Russia but not letting troops on his territory. That's now changed and it feels likely to be permanent. Obviously, it's been totally over-shadowed.

[Berkut]

I am waiting for someone to show up and tell us how there is nuance, and really, the aggressor was actually the Ukraine, because some commission noted that in fact some Russian in the Donbass was actually aggressively yelled at, so clearly it was all their fault, and besides, you can't really blame Russia because back in 1576 the Mongols attacked them.

[mongers]

I am waiting for someone to show up and tell us how there is nuance, and really, the aggressor was actually the Ukraine, because some commission noted that in fact some Russian in the Donbass was actually aggressively yelled at, so clearly it was all their fault, and besides, you can't really blame Russia because back in 1576 the Mongols attacked them.

Have you considered waiting for the tooth fairy instead?

[Sheilbh]

I am waiting for someone to show up and tell us how there is nuance, and really, the aggressor was actually the Ukraine, because some commission noted that in fact some Russian in the Donbass was actually aggressively yelled at, so clearly it was all their fault, and besides, you can't really blame Russia because back in 1576 the Mongols attacked them.

Have you considered waiting for the tooth fairy instead?

Yeah it feels like a "tell me you've never been on Languish without saying you've never been on Languish" post.

[DGuller]

Berkut has been on Languish before, guys. You don't remember him?

[HVC]

I am waiting for someone to show up and tell us how there is nuance, and really, the aggressor was actually the Ukraine, because some commission noted that in fact some Russian in the Donbass was actually aggressively yelled at, so clearly it was all their fault, and besides, you can't really blame Russia because back in 1576 the Mongols attacked them.

Have you considered waiting for the tooth fairy instead?

Yeah it feels like a "tell me you've never been on Languish without saying you've never been on Languish" post.

He's just tilting at gaijins

[Berkut]

More tilting at all the happy Languishites who swallowed his propaganda, really.


He isn't that interesting. The fact that people actually fall for it is much more interesting.

[Berkut]

Looking beyond the absolute human tragedy this is going to be, I am very curious as to what it is going to look like from the perspective of the spectator.

Does Ukraine have any kind of air force at all?

Why hasn't the West sold them more advanced SAM systems? That would seem to be an extremely effective deterrent, or would have been....

[Agelastus]

Does Ukraine have any kind of air force at all?

Yes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Air_Force#Aircraft

I can't help but notice that even after 30 years of independence there is a distinct lack of Western aircraft in their armoury. Or anything particularly new.

[Admiral Yi]

More tilting at all the happy Languishites who swallowed his propaganda, really.

Who would that be?