Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-23 and Invasion

[The Larch]

Was this "party like it's 1962" thing been discussed already?

Russia threatens military deployment to Cuba and Venezuela as diplomacy stalls
US says 'drumbeat of war is sounding loud' as talks with Russia over Ukraine head towards dead end

[Syt]

Gerhard Schröder has called on Ukraine to cease its saber-rattling.

[Tamas]

Gerhard Schröder has called on Ukraine to cease its saber-rattling.

How is that guy not in prison for treason?

[Duque de Bragança]

Gerhard Schröder has called on Ukraine to cease its saber-rattling.

Not at all surprising.
He's actually worse than Merkel.

[Zanza]

Gerhard Schröder has called on Ukraine to cease its saber-rattling.

What an assclown. 

[DGuller]

I still can't get used to how shamelessly open so many people are about doing the bidding of potentially hostile countries.  You'd think that this kind of thing requires some covertness, but that seems to be an outdated notion these days.

[Razgovory]

Tucker Carlson thinks we should be backing Russia.

[Sheilbh]

I still can't get used to how shamelessly open so many people are about doing the bidding of potentially hostile countries.  You'd think that this kind of thing requires some covertness, but that seems to be an outdated notion these days.

Yeah - I kind of get it with Schroeder. He signed up in 2005, there was still a bit of the 90s attitude about the world. But at some point since he must have realised and made the choice.

The same goes for Paul Keating former Aussie PM who serves on the board of numerous Chinese companies.

It's crazy that it still happens - see Francois Fillon who in November was appointed to the board of big Russian gas company. In 2017 he was the centre-right's candidate (and to begin the favourite) for President and was a former French PM.  At this point you must know what you're getting into.

[HVC]

Gerhard Schröder has called on Ukraine to cease its saber-rattling.

What an assclown. 

He's loyal to those that pay him, at least. That's kind of admirable I guess lol

[Duque de Bragança]

It's crazy that it still happens - see Francois Fillon who in November was appointed to the board of big Russian gas company. In 2017 he was the centre-right's candidate (and to begin the favourite) for President and was a former French PM.  At this point you must know what you're getting into.

In the centre-right primary election debates, his pro-Russia (pro-Putin) stance was the main difference with the likes of old Jupin Juppé (keep some kind of dialogue nothing more) or even Sarkozy. Mind you, not as overt as Marine, not to mention the leftist useful idiot Mélenchon who claimed Balts have had problems with Russia for the last 1000 years so let us stay put (the latter in a TV presidential debate).

[Razgovory]

It's crazy that it still happens - see Francois Fillon who in November was appointed to the board of big Russian gas company. In 2017 he was the centre-right's candidate (and to begin the favourite) for President and was a former French PM.  At this point you must know what you're getting into.

In the centre-right primary election debates, his pro-Russia (pro-Putin) stance was the main difference with the likes of old Jupin Juppé (keep some kind of dialogue nothing more) or even Sarkozy. Mind you, not as overt as Marine, not to mention the leftist useful idiot Mélenchon who claimed Balts have had problems with Russia for the last 1000 years so let us stay put (the latter in a TV presidential debate).

Request for Clarification: Is pro-Russia good or bad in your book?

[Sheilbh]

It's amazing to see how many from the stupider segments of the left are trying to paint America as the aggressor in this.
It just makes zero sense even in a world where America is evil incarnate.

I think it's the old anti-imperialism thing. America is the global hegemon/imperial power therefore anyone opposed to America should be supported or at least not condemned, regardless of their own conduct and actions taken by America are in support of its imperialism/hegemony.

Any other position supports imperialism.

[Razgovory]

It's amazing to see how many from the stupider segments of the left are trying to paint America as the aggressor in this.
It just makes zero sense even in a world where America is evil incarnate.

I think it's the old anti-imperialism thing. America is the global hegemon/imperial power therefore anyone opposed to America should be supported or at least not condemned, regardless of their own conduct and actions taken by America are in support of its imperialism/hegemony.

Any other position supports imperialism.

That is a charitable interpretation.  Some people, particularly on the fringes, are malcontents and hate the world they were born into for whatever reason.  They stand with anyone who stands against that world, no matter how vile.

[Jacob]

I think some people are just very attracted to being contrary and in opposition, and that makes them susceptible to assorted psyops.

[Jacob]

Reading the most recent Canadian reporting here: https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/russia-ukraine-nato-tension-invasion-1.6330910

Nothing super new, other than Putin now has the pieces in place to invade, should he so choose. That and some more Lavrov quotes and Putin quotes, including:

Earlier Friday, the Kremlin said Putin told French President Emmanuel Macron that the West has failed to consider Russia's key conditions of halting further NATO expansion, stopping the deployment of alliance weapons near Russian borders and rolling back its forces from eastern Europe.

...

"While they say they won't change their positions, we won't change ours," Lavrov told Russian radio stations in a live interview. "I don't see any room for compromise here.

"There won't be a war as far as it depends on the Russian Federation, we don't want a war," he added. "But we won't let our interests be rudely trampled on and ignored."

...

While welcoming Washington's offers on confidence-building measures, Lavrov argued they are secondary to Russia's main concerns on NATO. He noted that international agreements say the security of one nation must not come at the expense of others — and that he would send letters to ask his Western counterparts to explain their failure to respect that pledge.

Which is particularly rich.

Russia is essentially saying "remove NATO troops from Eastern European NATO countries or we will be forced to invade Ukraine" while also saying "the security of one nation must not come at the expense of others." What about the security of Eastern European nations?

Russian statements - the things Putin and Lavrov are saying - are certainly pushing me more and more towards Yi's view. Let's offer membership to Ukraine, and if that means war with Russia - fine. Fuck 'em. What a bunch of two-bit bullies.